May 28, 2026 Historic District Commission

ANY CHANGES TO THE, UH, MINUTES FROM YOUR SIDE? WE HAVEN'T HEARD OF ANY SUGGESTED CHANGES.

WE HAVE A, A QUORUM.

UH, JAMIE, DO YOU HAVE

[3 Approval of Minutes]

SO THE MINUTES ARE IN YOUR PACKET AND, UH, READY FOR APPROVAL.

UNLESS Y'ALL SEE THE NEED FOR ANY EDITS.

COMMISSIONERS, YOU'VE HAD A CHANCE TO READ IT.

DO WE HAVE ANY CHANGES IN THE MINUTES? IF NOT, CAN I HEAR A MOTION? MOTION TO APPROVE.

CAN I HAVE A ROLL CALL? COMMISSIONER DEAN? YES.

JAMIE, DO YOU HAVE ANY CHANGES IN THAT WE NEED TO KNOW ABOUT? THERE ARE NO CHANGES FROM THE PUBLISHED AGENDA.

UH, FOR THE AUDIENCE, IF YOU'D LIKE TO SPEAK AT THE, UH, CITIZENS' COMMENT SECTION OF OUR AGENDA, PLEASE FILL THIS CARD OUT AND BRING IT DOWN TO ONE OF OUR STAFF MEMBERS DOWN HERE, AND WE'LL BE GLAD TO HEAR FROM YOU.

ALRIGHT.

MINUTES ARE APPROVED.

NOW ONTO THE FORMAL AGENDA.

[4 Approval of Agenda (additions/deletions)]

YOU HAVE ONE ITEM ON THE CONSENT AGENDA AND THAT APPLICANT AGREES WITH ALL THE CONDITIONS AND THREE ON YOUR REGULAR AGENDA.

COMMISSIONERS, DO I HEAR A MOTION TO APPROVE THE AGENDA? MOTION TO APPROVE.

A SECOND.

COMMISSIONER GIVEN? YEAH.

CAN I HAVE A ROLL CALL? UH, COMMISSIONER DEAN? YES.

COMMISSIONER WALKER? YES.

ARE THERE ANY, UH, PEOPLE PRESENT WOULD LIKE TO COME SPEAK? THIS IS THE PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION ON ANY ITEM.

HEARING NONE.

THE CONSENT AGENDA, JAMIE, AS WELL SEPARATE JUST TO CORRECT.

AND WE'LL GO AHEAD AND APPROVE

[6 Approval of Consent Agenda]

COMMISSIONERS, YOU GOT A CHANCE TO SEE THE CONSENT AGENDA? DO YOU HAVE ANY MOTION FOR ME? MOTION TO APPROVE.

WE HAVE A MOTION.

A SECOND.

CAN I HAVE A ROLL CALL? COMMISSIONER GIVEN? YES.

COMMISSIONER DEAN? YES.

GOOD AFTERNOON COMMISSIONERS.

OKAY, ONTO

[7.a Case #260904 – 242 North Rowlett Street – Request approval of a Certificate of Appropriateness (CofA) for fencing]

CASE NUMBER 2 6 0 9 0 4.

DO WE HAVE A STAFF REPORT? UH, YES.

MARIA'S GONNA MAKE THIS PRESENTATION AND I WILL ALSO NOTE THAT TODAY MARIA PASSED THE AMERICAN INSTITUTE OF CERTIFIED PLANNING INSTITUTES EXAMS. GREAT.

GOOD JOB.

CONGRATULATIONS.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

SO HERE, PRETTY SOON SHE'LL BE ABLE TO USE A ICP NEXT TO HER NAME.

OKAY, JUST GONNA, OKAY.

THE APPLICANT AND PROPERTY OWNER, DENNIS EDER, IS REQUESTING FOR CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR A SIX FOOT TALL VINYL FENCING FOR A REAR YARD AT 2 4 2 NORTH ARLET STREET.

SO THE 1.27 ACRE PROPERTIES LOCATED ON NORTH SIDE OF NORTH ROLLETTE STREET, WEST OF THE TOWN SQUARE AND HAS AN EXISTING SINGLE FAMILY DWELLING.

SO IN DECEMBER, UH, 2 25, A SWIMMING POOL PERMIT WAS ISSUED, AND IN APRIL THIS YEAR, A FENCE PERMIT WAS SUBMITTED FOR VINYL FENCING TO SERVE AS A SWIMMING POOL BARRIER.

SO THERE'S NO EXISTING FENCE SURROUNDING THE PROPERTY RIGHT NOW, EXCEPT FOR A NEIGHBOR, NEIGHBOR'S, UH, WOODEN FENCE ON THE WESTERN PROPERTY LINE.

SO SINCE THE PROPERTY IS WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, THE USE OF VINYL AS FENCE MATERIAL

[00:05:01]

REQUIRES HDC APPROVAL.

OKAY, SO IT'S A BIT OF BACKGROUND.

THE ONE AND A HALF STORY SINGLE FAMILY, UH, HOME WAS CONSTRUCTED AROUND 1905 AND IS INDIVIDUAL LISTED ON THE NATIONAL REGISTER AS THE JR IBI HOUSE.

SO THE STRUCTURE FIXTURES, MINIMAL COLONIAL REVIVAL INFLUENCE WITH TWO GABLE ROOF DORMERS.

SO THE 2004 AND 2020 HISTORIC SERVICE, UH, SURVEYS BOTH INDICATE THE PROPERTY IS A CONTRIBUTING STRUCTURE TO THE NATIONAL REGISTERED DISTRICT.

SO WHAT DOES THE HISTORIC DESIGN GUIDELINES SAY ABOUT FENCE MATERIALS? IT SAYS THE APPROPRIATE MATERIALS INCLUDE IRON, WOOD, PLANTINGS, BRICK STONE, AND THE DESIGN OF NEW FENCES SHOULD BLEND WITH MATERIALS AND DESIGNS FOUND IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

SO VINYL FENCES MAY BE APPROPRIATE IN CERTAIN INSTANCES.

HOWEVER, VINYL FENCES ARE NOT COMMONLY USED IN HISTORIC DISTRICT BECAUSE, UM, THEIR APPEARANCE AND THEIR DESIGN DO NOT ALIGN WITH THE HISTORIC, UH, STEAL FINISHES AND CHARACTER OF HISTORIC HOMES.

SO IN OCTOBER, 2024, THE HVC APPROVED THE USE OF CELLULAR PVC, WHICH TRADITIONAL WOOD APPEARANCE AS AN ALTERNATIVE FENCE MATERIAL FOR A SINGLE FAMILY HOME AT TWO 50 WEST POPLAR AVENUE.

SO ON YOUR SCREEN IS THE FENCE LAYOUT, UH, PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT, INCLUDING THE WHITE VINYL FENCE THAT HE'S PROPOSING TO USE.

SO HE STATES, UH, IN HIS COVER LETTER THAT HIS NE NEIGHBOR'S WOODEN FENCE HAS BEEN GRAYED OUT AND IT LOOKS SHODDY.

SO IF YOU SEE THE, THE PHOTO ON THE UPPER LEFT, HE ALSO CLAIMS THE WHITE VINYL FENCE WILL LOOK FRESHER, WILL BE MORE DURABLE AND REQUIRE LESS MAINTENANCE THAN WOULD HE ADDED THAT.

UM, MATURE TREES AND TENDINGS ON HIS PROPERTY WILL PROVIDE ENOUGH SCREENING SO THE FENCE WILL NOT BE VISIBLE FROM THE STREET.

HE'S ALSO WILLING TO ADD MORE SHRUBS IF NEEDED.

SO WHILE THE REAR OF THE HOUSE IS APPROXIMATELY 160 FEET FROM NORTH NOR NORTH ROWLETT STREET, THE SECTIONS OF THE FENCE MAY BE VISIBLE FROM THE STREET DURING THE WINTER MONTHS WHEN THE PLANTING SHED THEIR LEAVES.

AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE, UH, BOTTOM PHOTO OVER HERE.

SO JUST TO GIVE YOU AN IDEA ON HOW NEIGHBORING FENCES LOOK LIKE, UH, STAFF TOOK THESE PHOTOS OF NEARBY FENCES.

THEY'RE ALL MADE OF WOOD.

SO THERE'S PICKET FENCES ON 2 3 2 NORTH ETTE STREET, UH, AS WELL AS ON, UM, 2 2 2 NORTH ETTE STREET.

AND THIS IS THE NEIGHBOR'S FENCE, UH, TWO 60 NORTH ETTE STREET.

SO STAFF CAN RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS AS PROPOSED UNLESS THE APPLICANT AGREES WITH ALL THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL, WHICH IS FOUND IN EXHIBIT TWO OF YOUR PACKET.

SO ONCE THE APPLICANT AGREES WITH THE CONDITIONS, DEFENSE MATERIAL WILL BE CONSISTENT WITH HISTORIC GUIDELINES CONCERNING THE USE OF APPROPRIATE ALTERNATIVE MATERIALS FOR FENCING.

SO THE SAMPLE MOTION IS ON YOUR SCREEN.

THIS ENDS MY PRESENTATION AND I'M AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS.

BUT AS YOU CAN SEE IN THE DRAWING, THE, THE HOUSE AND THE POOL ARE IN BACK OF TWO BUILDINGS.

DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR STAFF RIGHT NOW? OKAY.

WOULD THE APPLICANT LIKE TO COME UP AND, UM, YOU CAN, YOU CAN DO A PRESENTATION OR YOU CAN BE THERE FOR QUESTIONS, WHATEVER YOU LIKE.

STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE.

YEAH, MY NAME IS DENNIS MEYER AND MY ADDRESS IS 2 42 NORTH ROLLOUT STREET COTTON ROAD.

SO THE REASON THAT I, I, THERE'S TWO OR THREE REASONS I I'VE REQUESTED THIS.

UM, NUMBER ONE, LIKE I POINTED OUT IN THE, IN THE PICTURES, THE, THE WOODEN FENCES, THEY LAST MAYBE FIVE TO SEVEN YEARS AND THEY LOOK SHODDY, THEY TURN GRAY.

AND EVEN IF YOU MAINTAIN, MY NEIGHBORS DO A GOOD JOB MAINTAINING THEIRS.

AND THAT WAS THE ONE THAT YOU SAW EARLIER.

SO WE HAD PROPOSED A WHITE, UH, VINYL FENCE.

THEY'RE ALSO A TAN COLORED VINYL FENCE THAT MAY KEEP IT A LITTLE BIT MORE SHELTERED FROM THE STREET,

[00:10:01]

AND THE FENCE WAS JUST OUTLINING THAT, THAT, UH, PROPERTY LINE FROM THE BACK OF THE STORAGE SHED ALL THE WAY BACK TO THE END OF THE PROPERTY.

UM, ANOTHER REASON THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT A VINYL FENCE, I, I CONTRACTED WITH SUPERIOR FENCE HERE, HERE IN MEMPHIS.

AND, UH, UH, THE COST OF THE PVC CELLULAR FENCE WAS MORE THAN DOUBLE WHAT THE COST OF THIS VINYL FENCE WAS.

AND THE VINYL FENCE ALSO WAS MORE EXPENSIVE THAN THE WOOD FENCE.

SO IT WAS KIND OF IN THE MIDDLE AND, UH, I WAS JUST HOPING TO SECURE, UH, OKAY, SURE, SURE.

I UNDERSTAND.

UH, YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, COMMISSIONERS? I, I, GO AHEAD.

JUST AM HAVING A HARD TIME WITH VINYLS SINCE WE DON'T ALLOW IT REALLY IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

WELL, LET'S, UH, JAMIE, GIVE US A LITTLE, UM, BACKGROUND.

HAVE WE, WE'VE DONE ONE VINYL OR NONE AT ALL? I'M HARD PRESSED TO THINK OF ANY VINYL IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF, UM, TWO, TWO CASES.

THE THE ONE YOU MENTIONED OF THE, THE PBC, IT WAS APPROVED FOR POPLAR AVENUE FOR A NEW HOUSE.

IT HASN'T BEEN INSTALLED YET, BUT IT, IT WAS APPROVED.

AND THEN AROUND 2 69 SOUTH CENTER, WHICH IS WHERE, SO WELL, MED SPA IS, IT WAS AN ATTORNEY'S, UH, OFFICE FOR MANY YEARS.

THEY DID HAVE SOME FENCING THAT WAS, WAS VINYL ON THAT PROPERTY, BUT IF IT, SOME OF IT FELL DOWN OR SOME OF IT'S BEEN REMOVED, THERE MAY NOT BE ANY LEFT.

THERE MAY, THERE MIGHT BE SOME AT THE VERY BACK IF THERE IS ANY LEFT, BUT THAT'S THE ONLY OTHER PLACE THAT I CAN RECALL THE GUIDELINES DO SAY, I'VE GOT 'EM PULLED UP HERE.

AND, AND MARIA WAS NOTING THAT EARLIER, IT DOES SAY VINYL FENCING MAY BE APPROPRIATE IN CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT THE GUIDELINES DON'T REALLY PROVIDE US ANY CONTEXT ABOUT WHAT THAT MEANS.

UM, SO IF, IF YOU WERE TO ASK ME WHAT THAT MEANS, I'M GUESSING MAYBE WE WOULD BE VERY CAREFUL IN HIGHLY PROMINENT LOCATIONS, UH, LIKE VISIBLE FROM MAJOR STREETS, UH, PARTICULARLY NATIONAL REGISTER PROPERTIES, HISTORIC PROPERTIES THAT WOULD NOT BE SOMETHING THAT WE, THAT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE ON A, LIKE MS. PARR'S HOUSE AT, AT, ON, ON NATCH STREET IN MOUNT PLEASANT.

THAT, THAT, THAT KIND OF FENCE NEEDED TO BE WOOD BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S, IT'S A VERY HISTORIC HOUSE.

IT'S, IT'S AT A, UM, IT'S AT A HIGH PROFILE INTERSECTION.

UH, BUT THOSE, THOSE ARE MY THOUGHTS, UH, ARCHITECTS, I WOULD LOVE SOME INPUT.

DO WE, DO WE KNOW THE DISTANCE FROM THE, SAY THE EDGE OF STREET TO THE FENCE AND FROM, SAY THE BACK OF YOUR HOUSE TO THE FENCE APPROXIMATELY? YEAH, IT'S, IT'S FROM THE BACK OF THE HOUSE.

IT'S ABOUT 62 FEET TO THE BACK OF THE SHED.

AND THEN FROM THE STREET IT'S A HUNDRED AND, UH, I THINK 150 FEET TO THE HOUSE AND THEN THE BACK OF THE HOUSE, AND THEN ADD THAT ON TO WHERE THE FENCE WOULD BE.

SO IT'S OVER 200 FEET.

JAMIE, IN THE VINYL STANDPOINT, WAS IT DETAILS OR ACTUAL MATERIAL THAT IT WAS NOT INCLUDED IN, UH, UNDER PVC TYPE OR IN THE REQUEST OR ANY OTHER REASONS WHY? NOT VINYL AS WAS OR FOR THE GUIDELINES? YES.

UH, NO, THE GUIDELINES DON'T GO BEYOND THAT ONE SENTENCE THAT, THAT I READ BECAUSE I KNOW A LOT THE, THE PVC OR THE VINYL ONES THAT I'VE SEEN, THE, THE DETAILING NOT REAL SHARP.

THEN ON YOUR TWO SIDE PROPERTY LINES, WHAT'S THE PERIMETER? IS THERE A LOT OF TREES THERE OR? SO IT WAS BRUSH.

YOU KNOW, YOU'VE GOT SOME GAPS AND THEY TEND TO EXPAND AND CONTRACT MORE THAN THAN THE PVC DOES.

UM, OKAY.

I I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY THE BIG ISSUE.

THE P THE, THE PVC IS BUILT LIKE YOU BUILD A WOOD FENCE AND THE VINYL IS A KIT THAT ASSEMBLES WITHIN EACH OTHER.

AND SO IN THAT REGARD, I MEAN, IF I WOULD BE VERY HARD PRESSED TO SAY ANYWHERE FROM THE BACK OF YOUR HOME FORWARD, YOU'D EVER GET MY VOTE ON A VINYL FENCE, BUT 200 FEET BACK, I'M THINKING, ARE WE GONNA NOTICE THAT THERE'S A CRACK BETWEEN THE VERTICAL MEMBER HITTING THE HORIZONTAL MEMBER AT 200 FEET? THAT'S WHERE YOU NOTICE THE DETAILS? OR IS, OR ARE WE GONNA LOOK AT IT AND IT'S GONNA LOOK LIKE THERE'S SIGNIFICANT TREES AND, AND PLANTS IN FRONT? SO, I MEAN, I GOT TWO MAGNOLIA TREES.

YEAH, YOU HAVE A BIG MAGNOLIA THERE.

YEAH, TWO HUGE MAGNOLIA TREES IN THE FRONT, WHICH YEAH, THAT'S ANOTHER STORY.

BUT YEAH, I MEAN, IT SHELTERS YOU, YOU REALLY DON'T NOTICE THE HOUSE FROM THE STREET UNLESS YOU JUST DRIVE UP AND STOP RIGHT IN FRONT OF IT.

SIR, WHAT'S THE, ON YOUR BACK PROPERTY LINE AND

[00:15:01]

AND IT WAS ALL DEAD BRUSH.

AND WE, AND I JUST CLEARED THAT OUT.

ALL OF THAT'S BEEN CLEARED OUT JUST SO THE FENCE GUYS COULD GET IN THERE AND, AND PUT THE FENCE IN.

SO, I MEAN, IN THE THOUGHT PROCESS HERE THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO KEEP THE NATURAL PATINA OF A WOOD FENCE THAT MATCHES, YOU KNOW, COHESIVELY WITH THE ARCHITECTURE THROUGHOUT THE SPACE OR THROUGHOUT THE AREA.

TEXTURALLY, YOU'RE TRYING TO LOOK AT SOMETHING THAT'S PROBABLY MORE IN LINE WITH ALL THE OTHER HOUSES.

IF YOU GO THROW UP A VINYL FENCE THAT'S A SOLID SHEET OF VINYL, TO ME, IT BECOMES OBVIOUS THAT IT'S NOT IN THE CONTEXT OF THE REST OF THE ARCHITECTURE.

SO I HAVE A HARD TIME, EVEN THOUGH IT'S 200 FEET BACK FROM YOUR ROAD, IT'S STILL GONNA BE VISIBLE.

IT IS A WHITE SOLID VINYL FENCE.

THEY DO HAVE A TAN WOOD COLOR THAT WE COULD PIVOT TO IF THAT WAS ACCEPTABLE.

WHEN WE SAY CELLULAR PVC, I TAKE IT, WE'RE TALKING LIKE A TREK PRODUCT.

YEAH, YEAH.

I MEAN, I EVEN STRUGGLE WITH THAT, BUT I UNDERSTAND IF YOU CAN MAKE IT LOOK MORE IN LINE WITH A SHADOW BOX, WOOD FENCE OR SOMETHING THAT'S MORE TEXTURALLY IN LINE, I SEE THAT.

BUT IF WE START LAYING ON A VINYL HERE, WHAT'S THE NEXT CASE THAT COMES AND SAYS MM-HMM .

WE WANNA PUT A VINYL FENCE IN OUR BACKYARD, WE WANNA PUT A VINYL FENCE IN OUR BACKYARD.

AND THEN BEFORE YOU KNOW IT, YOU LOSE THE INTEGRITY OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

SO I'M JUST INCLINED TO SAY NO ON THIS.

SO I DO HAVE ONE QUESTION.

UH, YOU MADE THE COMMENT OF SOLID VINYL.

ARE THE VERTICAL BOARDS, WHEN I'M LOOKING AT THE PHOTOGRAPH OF YEAH.

INDIVIDUAL PLANKS, ARE THEY INDIVIDUAL BOARDS OR IS IT A SHEET? THEY'RE INDIVIDUAL PLANKS THAT FIT IN A TRACK THAT GOES ACROSS, YEAH.

TONGUE AND GROOVE.

DO YOU HAVE ANY MORE? UH, THANK YOU, SIR.

I APPRECIATE IT.

I TEND TO AGREE IT'S, IT'S, UH, IT'S THREE SIDES OF A FENCE AS WELL.

AND, AND I THINK MAYBE YOU'RE RIGHT, THAT THE NEIGHBOR COULD COME IN AND SAY, I WANT THAT FENCE, AND THE NEXT NEIGHBOR COMES AND SAY, I WANT THAT FENCE.

AND, UM, COST NOTWITHSTANDING, I THINK OUR GOAL IS TO STICK WITHIN THE GUIDELINES THAT HAVE BEEN SET UP FOR A LONG TIME.

UM, LET ME THROW THIS UP HERE.

IF THE FRONT FACE, OR EVEN OF ALL FACES, IF YOU HAD MORE OF A, IF YOU HAD SOME SPACING BETWEEN THE, THE, THE, THE VERTICAL BOARDS, SO THERE WAS LIGHT PASSING THROUGH A LITTLE BIT, UM, IT STILL ACTS AS A FENCE, BUT, YOU KNOW, GIVES YOU MORE OF A MM-HMM.

STYLE AND RAIL.

NOT STYLE AND RAIL, BUT JUST, YOU KNOW, JUST SOME VIEW TO LIGHTEN THE THING UP SO IT'S NOT JUST A PURE WHITE OR PURE TAN.

AND I, I DON'T MEAN TO TRY TO DESIGN THIS FOR YOU, JUST TRYING TO HELP YOU THROUGH WHAT COULD BE A POSSIBLE SOLUTION OR PEOPLE'S FEELINGS ON SOMETHING LIKE THAT.

THE, THE PICTURE, UM, THAT WE HAVE IN OUR PACKET, IT ALMOST LOOKS LIKE A WALL.

TO ME, WHICH WE'RE, WHICH WE'RE REALLY NOT, NOT IN THE GUIDELINES AT ALL.

UM, AND I THINK THAT'S PART OF THE PROBLEM TOO, IS YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE ANY OF THE SPACING.

NOT THAT I CAN TELL FROM THIS PICTURE.

IT LOOKS LIKE A WALL, NOT A FENCE, KIND OF, I MEAN, IT'S JUST IN THE CONSTRUCTION OF IT, IT'S MODERN DAY CONSTRUCTION COMPARED TO WHAT YOU WOULD'VE BUILT.

BY STICK, BUILDING A FENCE PREVIOUSLY.

SO I DON'T KNOW THAT YOU CAN DETAIL THIS FENCE TO MAKE IT MATCH THE, WELL, IF YOU PUT THE WOOD FENCE UP, IT'S GONNA BE A WALL, RIGHT? YEAH.

SAME.

IT'S GONNA LOOK THE SAME.

COULD COULD YOU GO BACK TO THE PHOTOGRAPH OF THE SIMILAR FENCES ON THE STREET, PLEASE? YEAH.

SO I'M LOOKING AT THE UPPER LEFT.

THAT'S A WOOD FENCE, I'M NOT MISTAKEN.

THE VICTORIA, YEAH.

THAT HOUSE, RIGHT? YEAH.

THERE YOU GO.

ON THE RIGHT OF THE DRIVEWAY.

THAT'S A WOODEN FENCE, I BELIEVE.

AND I'M NOT ADVOCATING FOR VINYL.

I DON'T GET ME WRONG, BUT I'M, I'M QUESTIONING AT 200 FEET.

COULD YOU, HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD KNOW THE DIFFERENCE IN THAT WOOD FENCE VERSUS A VINYL FENCE IS WHAT I'M, I THINK WHEN IT'S NEW, PROBABLY NONE, BUT IN A YEAR, MAYBE .

BECAUSE IT SHINES AND THAT'S BEEN, IT'S NOT THE SAME.

IT'S JUST NOT.

UH, THAT'S, THAT'S BEEN ONE OF MY BIGGEST PET PEEVES.

THE HEAT HERE MAY BE WORSE ON IT MORE

[00:20:01]

THAN ANYTHING.

WE'VE ACTUALLY, IN PRIVATE DEVELOPMENTS, PEOPLE THAT, SO THEY HAVE TO HAVE IT.

WE'VE ACTUALLY REQUIRED THEM TO PAINT IT SO THE SHEEN WASN'T THERE.

AND OF COURSE THAT GOES AGAINST ONE AN OWNERS A MM-HMM .

IS YOU'RE PAINTING A FENCE.

SO YEAH, THEY WOULD, CARSON ISN'T THE, AS YOU LOOK AT THE FENCE ON THE TOP LEFT, I MEAN THE INS AND OUTS OF IT, THE IMPERFECTNESS OF IT.

I MEAN THAT'S WOOD'S.

THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO KEEP IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

THE, THE PVC THAT WE DID BEFORE PVC, WOULD THAT BE AN OPTION AT ALL? AT NO COST? YES.

WOULD YOU, WOULD, SO YOU'D RATHER DO WOOD THAN I WOULD NOT, MR. CHAIR? YES.

UH, THE WAY STAFF STRUCTURED CONDITION NUMBER TWO, IF YOU WERE TO APPROVE THIS, UM, IT PROVIDES EITHER THE, THE CELLULAR PVC AS AN OPTION OR WOOD.

SO IT, IT ALLOWS FOR EITHER SCENARIO, RIGHT, RIGHT.

THE MOTION, YEAH, THE PROPOSED MOTION.

HAS THAT IN THERE ALREADY.

SO THE BOUNDARY OF THE FENCE WOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE.

THE HEIGHT OF THE FENCE WOULD NOT BE AN ISSUE.

HE JUST WOULD NEED TO CHANGE IT TO THE MATERIAL.

IF WE APPROVE THE MOTION TONIGHT.

CORRECT.

TODAY.

ANY OTHER DISCUSSION? IF WE HAVE A MOTION? UH, I'M CONFUSED THOUGH, IF WE'RE APPROVING IT.

SO WE'RE APPROVING, UH, NUMBER, LET'S SEE, TWO.

NUMBER TWO, THE FENCE MATERIAL SHALL EITHER BE NATURAL WOOD OR CELLULAR PVC.

SO, SO STAFF'S RECOMMENDATION IS ALREADY CHANGED IT TO OKAY.

WHAT'S WITHIN THE GUIDELINES.

CONDITIONS, ONE THROUGH FOUR, INCLUDING CONDITIONS.

SO WE WOULD, OKAY.

THAT'S WHAT GETS US IN THE GUIDELINES.

GOT IT.

MOTION TO APPROVE THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST FOR A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR FENCING AT 2 42 NORTH ROUT STREET, SUBJECT TO THE FOLLOWING CONDITIONS.

DO I HAVE TO READ 'EM? NO, JUST ONE THROUGH CONDITIONS.

ONE THROUGH FOUR.

1, 2, 4.

WE HAVE A MOTION.

CAN I HAVE A ROLL CALL? COMMISSIONER HALL? YES.

COMMISSIONER DEAN? YES.

WAS ALSO NOT INCLUDED IN THE 2021 UPDATE TO THAT SURVEY.

CASE NUMBER

[7.b Case # 260647 – 243 College Street – Request approval of a Certificate of Appropriateness (CofA) for exterior renovations]

2 6 0 6 4 7 2 43.

COLLEGE STREET.

DO WE HAVE A STAFF REPORT? UH, YES.

ALLISON'S GONNA MAKE THE PRESENTATION.

UH, THANK YOU CHAIR AND COMMISSIONERS.

UM, SO THE APPLICANT AND PROPERTY OWNERS, UH, JOE AND KATHY KING, THEY'RE REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR EXTERIOR ALTERATIONS, AND THOSE INCLUDE REPLACING THE ROOF, INSTALLING A METAL GATE ACROSS THE DRIVEWAY, ADDING TWO DORMERS, EXTENDING THE COVERED FRONT PORCH, THE LENGTH OF THE HOUSE, UH, REPLACING ALL OF THE WINDOWS AND EXTERIOR DOORS, UH, ADDING AN ADDITION ALONG THE REAR, AND, UH, PAINTING, UH, THE, THE BRICK.

UH, I DO JUST WANNA NOTE, UM, THAT, UH, CERTIFICATES OF OCCUPANCY, UH, REALLY ARE JUST A GOOD WAY FOR, UM, THE HDC, UH, TO, UM, YOU KNOW, DETERMINE IF THE CONSTRUCTION PLANS WILL BE DONE, UM, IN AN APPROPRIATE WAY THAT WILL NOT DEVALUE THE CHARACTER, UM, OF THE BUILDING OR THE ENVIRONMENT.

UH, SO AS I MENTIONED, UM, THIS IS, UM, A SINGLE FAMILY HOME.

UM, IT IS, UH, IT'S OUTSIDE OF THE NATIONAL HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT IT IS WITHIN THE LOCAL HISTORIC OVERLAY.

IT IS ZONED R ONE, AND THE HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS PARTICULAR PROPERTY HAS NOT BEEN DETERMINED.

UH, SO THE HOUSE WAS CONSTRUCTED IN 1958, AND YOU CAN SEE AN IMAGE OF THE HOUSE HERE.

IT IS A MINIMAL TRADITIONAL STYLE WITH TUDOR ACCENTS, AND THOSE TUDOR ACCENTS MAINLY COME IN THE FORM OF THIS, UM, STONE VENEER AROUND THE FRONT ENTRANCE.

UH, ACCORDING TO TOWN RECORDS, UH, TWO BUILDING PERMITS HAVE BEEN ISSUED TO THE HOUSE SINCE IT WAS CONSTRUCTED.

UH, ONE WAS IN 1976 FOR AN ADDITION TO ENLARGE A BATHROOM, AND ANOTHER WAS IN 1993 TO CONVERT A PORCH ON THE REAR, UH, INTO LIVING SPACE.

UH, I WOULD LIKE TO NOTE, UH, TWO NEW WINDOWS HAVE ALSO BEEN ADDED TO THE REAR OF THE HOUSE, BUT WHEN THAT WAS DONE, IT'S NOT CLEAR.

UM, THE PROPERTY WAS NOT INCLUDED IN THE 2004 HISTORIC STRUCTURE SURVEY BECAUSE AT THE TIME IT WASN'T 50 YEARS OLD.

UH, AND IT

[00:25:01]

UH, STAFF BELIEVES THAT THIS WAS IN OVERSIGHT, UM, AND THE SUBJECT PROPERTY WASN'T INTENTIONALLY LEFT OUT OF THAT SURVEY.

UH, BUT I SAY ALL THAT TO SAY THAT THE HISTORICAL SIGNIFICANCE OF THIS PROPERTY, UH, IS UNCLEAR CLEAR.

UH, SO AS I MENTIONED, ONE OF THE, UM, UH, THINGS THAT THE APPLICANT WOULD LIKE TO DO IS TO PAINT THE BRICK.

SO RIGHT NOW YOU CAN SEE IT'S UNPAINTED RED BRICK WITH THE STONE VENEER, UM, THE APPLICANT TO DO STATE THAT THE EXISTING BRICK WILL NEED TO BE REPLACED IN MULTIPLE AREAS ALONG THE FRONT AND NEW BRICK WILL BE USED WITH THE REAR ADDITION.

UH, AND THAT ADDITION WILL BE VISIBLE FROM COLLEGE STREET, NOT LOOKING DIRECTLY ON, BUT IF YOU'RE TRAVELING EAST OR WESTBOUND.

AND, UH, THE APPLICANT HAS BEEN ADVISED BY THEIR BUILDER THAT FINDING BRICK TO MATCH WILL BE EXTREMELY DIFFICULT.

UM, UH, SO THE APPLICANT WOULD LIKE TO PAINT THE EXISTING RED BRICK, UH, A MUTED NEUTRAL COLOR THAT'S SIMILAR TO OTHER HOMES IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD.

UH, AND THE APPLICANT'S FIRST CHOICE, UH, WOULD BE TO PAINT THE BRICK, UH, DOVER WHITE.

AS YOU CAN SEE HERE.

UH, THEY'RE ALSO, UM, OPEN TO WHITEWASHING OR TO HAVE A GERMAN, UH, SMEAR.

UH, THE HISTORIC DISTRICT GUIDELINES DO STATE, UH, THE PAINTING OF BRICK IS INAPPROPRIATE, UH, UNLESS IT IS MISMATCHED OR SO DETERIORATED THAT THE BRICK CANNOT WITHSTAND WEATHER.

IF PAINTING IS NECESSARY, ORIGINAL NATURAL COLORS SHOULD BE USED.

AND THAT'S FOUND ON PAGE 46 OF OUR GUIDELINES.

UH, THE GUIDELINES DO ALSO STATE, UH, WHEN PAINTING A HOUSE IN THE HISTORIC OVERLAY THAT COLORS SHOULD BE CHOSEN THAT BLEND WIDTH AND COMPLEMENT THE OVERALL COLOR SCHEME OF THE STREET.

THE APPLICANTS DO STATE THAT THEY TOOK THAT INTO CONSIDERATION WHEN THEY CHOSE THEIR COLORS.

UM, IN 2019, UM, THE HDC DID DENY A REQUEST TO PAINT A 1947 BRICK STRUCTURE ALSO ALONG COLLEGE STREET.

UM, THIS STRUCTURE WAS INCLUDED IN THE HISTORIC SURVEYS, AND IT WAS DETERMINED TO BE, UH, ELIGIBLE FOR THE NATIONAL REGISTER.

UH, IN 2021, UH, STAFF RELEASED A MEMO TO THE MAYOR OUTLINING WHEN PAINTING BRICK INSIDE THE HISTORIC OVERLAY IS AND IS NOT APPROPRIATE.

UH, THE MEMO WAS DRAFTED AFTER, AFTER SEVERAL HDC WORK SESSIONS AND DECISIONS THAT, YOU KNOW, RELATED TO PAINTED BRICK.

UH, AND I WILL SAY, UM, THE HDC GUIDELINES HAVE NOT BEEN UPDATED TO ADDRESS THESE ISSUES AS OF YET.

UM, BUT, UM, THE MEMO STATES THAT THE HDC WILL NO LONGER REGULATE THE COLOR OF PAINT USED ON MASONRY FOR RESIDENTIAL STRUCTURES.

AND THEN THE MEMO ALSO STATES THAT MASON RESTRUCTURES THAT WERE BUILT IN 1970 OR BEFORE, UH, THAT ARE LISTED AS NON-CONTRIBUTING IN THE SURVEYS, UH, MAY BE APPROPRIATE TO PAINT.

AND AS I MENTIONED, THIS HOUSE WAS NOT LISTED IN THE SURVEY.

SO WHETHER IT IS OR IS NOT CONTRIBUTING HAS NOT BEEN DETERMINED.

UH, THE APPLICANT PROPOSES TO CONNECT THE TWO FRONT PORCHES, UH, WHICH YOU CAN SEE HERE ON THE RIGHT OF YOUR SCREEN.

UM, THOSE TWO FRONT PORCHES, UH, WOULD CONNECT TO RUN THE ENTIRE LENGTH OF THE HOUSE.

AND, UH, THE APPLICANT'S WOULD LIKE TO INCLUDE WOODEN POSTS AND TO RELOCATE THE FRONT ENTRANCE, UH, FROM THE, UM, WESTERN SIDE OF THE FRONT FACADE TO THE EASTERN SIDE OF THAT FRONT FACADE.

UM, THE, TO MAINTAIN THE TUDOR ACCENTS, UM, THE APPLICANT IS PROPOSING TO OFFSET THIS FRONT ENTRANCE.

AS YOU CAN SEE HERE, UM, IN STONE VENEER WILL WOULD BE ADDED TO THE WOODEN POST.

AND AN EXAMPLE WAS PROVIDED BY THE APPLICANT.

IT'S ON YOUR SCREEN.

UM, THE APPLICANT, THE GUIDELINES STATE, UH, THAT THE ORIGINAL DETAILS AND SHAPE OF PORCHES SHOULD BE RETAINED, REPLACE AN ENTIRE PORCH ONLY IF IT IS TOO DETERIORATED TO REPAIR, AND THAT NEW PORCHES SHOULD MATCH THE ORIGINAL AS CLOSELY AS POSSIBLE.

UH, AVOID REMOVING A RADICALLY CHANGING ENTRANCES OR PORCHES IMPORTANT TO THE DEFINING BUILDING'S OVERALL CHARACTER.

UH, SO IF THE HDC DOES BELIEVE THAT THE STRUCTURE HAS HISTORICAL INTEGRITY, UH, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING AS A CONDITION OF APPROVAL, UH, THE USE OF WROUGHT IRON IN THE NEW PORCH POSTS AND RAILINGS IN A SIMILAR STYLE TO WHAT IS CURRENTLY AT THE HOUSE.

UH, THIS WILL HELP MAINTAIN THE ORIGINAL DETAILS AND CHARACTER OF THE FRONT ELEVATION.

UH, SO THIS IS A RENDERING OF THAT, THAT REAR ADDITION.

[00:30:01]

UM, THE ELEVATIONS INDICATE THAT THE ADDITION WILL MATCH THE MATERIALS OF THE EXISTING HOUSE.

UH, AND AGAIN, TO QUOTE THE GUIDELINES, UH, ADDITIONS SHOULD BE DIFFERENTIATED FROM THE OLD AND SHOULD BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE MASSING SIZE, SCALE, AND ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES TO PROTECT THE HISTORICAL INTEGRITY OF THE PROPERTY, UH, AND ITS ENVIRONMENT.

UM, ONE OF THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL THAT STAFF IS SUGGESTING IS THAT THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE NEEDS TO BE, UM, OR THE ADDITION NEEDS TO BE DISTINGUISHED FROM THE ORIGINAL STRUCTURE, UH, IN SOME WAY, WHETHER THAT'S AN ARCHITECTURAL FEATURE OR WHETHER THAT'S CHANGING THE MATERIALS.

UM, AND IN, IN, IN COMMUNICATING, UH, WITH THE PROPERTY OWNER, UM, IT, IT DOES SEEM THAT THERE WILL BE AN ARCHITECTURAL FEATURE.

UM, I, I DO BELIEVE THAT IS WHAT THIS LINE IS SHOWING HERE.

UM, BUT WHAT EXACTLY THAT FEATURE IS, UH, SO THE EXISTING DOORS AND WINDOWS, UH, WILL BE REPLACED AND NEW WINDOWS WILL BE ADDED AS PART, UM, OF THE ADDITION.

SO, UH, THE RHYTHM PATTERN AND, OH, I, I DO APOLOGIZE.

LET ME, LET ME BACK UP.

UM, I DO WANNA TALK ABOUT THE DORMERS FIRST.

UH, SO, UH, THERE, THERE WILL BE TWO NEW DORMERS, UH, ADDED TO THE FRONT OF THE HOUSE.

UM, THE APPLICANTS ALSO WANT TO REPLACE THE EXISTING ROOF, AND THEY ALSO WANNA ADD THIS METAL GATE.

UH, BLACK ARCHITECTURAL ASPHALT SHINGLES WILL BE USED AND THEY'LL MATCH THE EXISTING ROOFING MATERIALS.

UH, THE DORMER WINDOWS WILL HAVE THE SAME SIZE, PROPORTION AND STYLE AS THE EXISTING WINDOWS, UH, AND THE, THE GATE AND THE FENCING THAT THE APPLICANTS ARE ALSO, UM, UH, WANTING TO INSTALL THAT WAS ALSO, UH, AN IMAGE WAS INCLUDED IN YOUR PACKET.

THOSE WILL NEED TO, UM, THE HDC WILL NOT BE APPROVING THOSE TONIGHT.

THOSE NEED TO COME BACK, UH, FOR A FENCE PERMIT.

THAT STAFF WILL APPROVE AS LONG AS, AS WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, AS LONG AS, UH, THE FENCE MEETS THE HDC GUIDELINES.

THAT WOULD JUST BE, UH, APPROVED BY STAFF.

SO THEY DO WANNA REPLACE ALL OF THE DOORS AND THE WINDOWS, UH, IN THE HOUSE.

AND THEN THEY WILL ADD NEW WINDOWS, UH, WITH THE DORMERS AND, UH, WITH THE ADDITION.

SO THE RHYTHM PATTERN AND RATIO OF WALLS TO WINDOWS AND DOORS WILL BE MAINTAINED ALONG THE FRONT, REAR AND EASTERN ELEVATION.

UH, A SUBSTANTIAL PORTION, UH, OF THE ADDITION WANT TO GO BACK.

A SUBSTANTIAL PORTION OF THE ADDITION, UH, ALONG THE WESTERN ELEVATION WILL BE WALL SPACE WITH NO WINDOWS OR, OR, UH, DOOR OPENINGS.

UM, IF THE HDC BELIEVES THE STRUCTURE HAS A HISTORICAL INTEGRITY, A CONDITION OF APPROVAL COULD BE ADDED FOR A WINDOW OPENING TO BE INSTALLED ALONG THAT WESTERN ELEVATION THAT WOULD MATCH THE SIZE PORTION AND DESIGN.

UH, ONLY BECAUSE THE, UM, THE GUIDELINES, UH, DISCOURAGE, UH, BLANK WALLS LIKE THIS AND THIS, UM, HAVING THIS BIG BLANK SPACE REALLY DOESN'T MATCH WHAT THE, THE, UM, THE WINDOW PATTERN IN RHYTHM THAT'S EXISTING.

UH, THE SIZE AND PORTION OF THE NEW WINDOWS, UH, DO APPEAR TO MATCH THE EXISTING, UH, THEY WOULD BE SIX PANE OVER SIX.

UH, PRODUCT DETAILS HAVE NOT BEEN PROVIDED, THOUGH IN ORDER TO VERIFY, UM, THAT THEY WILL BE, UM, SIMILAR AND TRUE DIVIDED LIGHT WINDOWS.

SO WE WOULD LIKE SOME MORE INFORMATION, UM, ON THE WINDOW SPECS.

UM, THE TWO EXISTING WINDOWS ALONG THE FRONT ELEVATION HAVE NON-FUNCTIONAL SHUTTERS.

UH, THE APPLICANT IS NOT PRO THE APPLICANT WOULD REMOVE THOSE NON-FUNCTIONAL SHUTTERS, AND THEY ARE NOT WANTING TO ADD ANY ADDITIONAL SHUTTERS.

UM, THERE, THERE IS A CONDITION OF APPROVAL THAT STATES IF THEY DO THAT, THOSE SHUTTERS NEED TO HAVE THE HARDWARE AND BE, UH, FUNCTIONAL SHUTTERS, UM, IN LINE WITH THE GUIDELINES.

SO I JUST WANNA DO A QUICK SUMMARY, UH, OF, OF THE PROJECT.

UM, SO AS WE TALKED ABOUT, UH, THE APPLICANTS DO WANT TO PAINT THE BRICK, UM, EITHER A SOLID, UH, MUTED CREAM COLOR OR DO THE GERMAN SMEAR OR THE WHITEWASHING.

UH, THEY DO WANT TO EXTEND THE TWO FRONT PORCHES TO RUN THE LENGTH OF THE FRONT ELEVATION.

UH, THEY'RE PROPOSING WOODEN POSTS, BUT, UH, A, A CONDITION OF APPROVAL COULD BE TO USE ROD, IRON AND PERHAPS, UM, THE STONE, UH, AT THE BASE OF THE POST COULD MORE SIMILARLY MIMIC THE STONE VENEER THAT IS CURRENTLY, UH, IN PLACE.

NOW, UM, AGAIN,

[00:35:01]

THERE WILL BE, UH, AN ADDITION TO THE REAR.

UH, THE MATERIALS DO SEEM TO MATCH WHAT IS CURRENTLY THERE, BUT THERE DOES NEED TO BE SOME DISTINCTION BETWEEN WHAT IS EXISTING AND, AND WHAT IS NEW.

UH, THERE COULD BE A CONDITION OF APPROVAL THAT WOULD REQUIRE A WINDOW TO BE ADDED ALONG THIS WESTERN ELEVATION.

UH, SO DUE TO THE POSSIBLE IMPACTS, UH, TO THE AREA AND THE FACT THAT HISTORICAL INTEGRITY HAS NOT BEEN, UH, ESTABLISHED, UM, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING THAT THE HTC DEFER, UM, TO, YOU KNOW, POTENTIALLY HAVE A WORK SESSION TO DETERMINE, UM, THE SIGNIFICANCE OF THE PROPERTY.

UH, SHOULD THE HDC DECIDE NOT TO DEFER THE CASE AND APPROVE, UH, THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR THOSE EXTERIOR ELEVATIONS, UH, STAFF HAS PROVIDED EXAMPLE CONDITIONS.

UM, AND I WOULD BE HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS.

ALEX, DO YOU HAVE A, UM, A FLOOR PLAN BY CHANCE SHOWING THE, THE EXTENSION OF THE FRONT FLOOR COMPARED TO WITH THE EXISTING HOUSE? OR IS IT JUST IN THERE? WE GO IF THAT, I DO NOT HAVE A FLOOR PLAN FOR THAT.

UM, IT, IT, IT, IT WAS INCLUDED, UM, IN THE PACKET? YES.

YOU CAN SEE IT ON THE SIDE ELEVATIONS, BUT YES.

SO BASICALLY THEY'RE CHANGING EVERYTHING ON THE FRONT AS FAR AS THE ARCHITECTURE BY REMOVING THE, THE FRONT DOOR, UM, PORTICO OR EDIFICE, UM, AND JUST EXTENDING EVERYTHING OUT.

Y YES.

AND THEN TAKING THE OFFSET DOOR FROM THE WESTERN SIDE TO THE EAST, RIGHT? MM-HMM .

SO NOW THE FRONT DOOR'S OVER HERE.

YOU WANNA HAVE QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? ANYONE ELSE? I'LL ASK REAL QUICK? JUST US.

UM, SO THIS IS A TUTOR EXTENDED TRADITIONAL HOME.

WHAT DOES THE, THE BOTTOM ONE LOOK LIKE? THAT IT IS NOT AMERICA.

THERE'S, YEAH, THERE'S NOTHING TOO UP THE TOP ONE EITHER, BUT KNOW, I DON'T KNOW.

SO THE TWO HOUSES ACROSS THE STREET ON COLLEGE, SOMETHING SIMILAR WAS DONE WITH BOTH OF THOSE? YES.

I, BECAUSE ONE OF THOSE HOMES WAS MY FIRST HOME AND IT NOTHING LIKE THAT, WHEN I LIVED THERE, THEY ADDED A PORCH.

AND SO IT'S, IT'S COLUMNS.

AND IT HAS COLUMNS.

YOU TALKING ABOUT THE ONE THAT THEY MADE LOOK LIKE A, THEY, THEY RETAINED THE BUNGALOW.

A CRAFTSMAN STYLE? YES.

BOTH OF 'EM.

NEXT DOOR, EACH THE BREWER'S HOUSE? NO, THE ONE NEXT TO THE BREWER'S.

OH, OH, OKAY.

IN THAT REGARD, IT'S ALMOST A NON, I'M JUST GONNA SAY NONDESCRIPT IN STYLE.

YOU SAID AMERICANA, I THINK.

GOOD, GOOD TERM.

YOU KNOW, 1958 SPECIAL .

UH, AND SO WITH ANY ADDITIONS, IT, IT COMES DOWN TO THE, DO THE DETAILS SCALE PORTION AND RHYTHM LOOK LIKE IT BELONGS IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT? YEAH.

I ALMOST LOOK AT THIS LIKE, IF THIS IS A NEW HOME, WOULD WE, OR DOES IT HAVE ISSUES OR IS IT, DOES IT COMPLY? THAT'S HOW I'M LOOKING AT IT ALMOST.

LET'S LET THE APPLICANT COME FORWARD.

IF YOU'D LIKE SOMEONE OR YOUR REPRESENTATIVE, UH, JUST STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD THAT THE NEW HOUSE OR THE HOUSE WE'RE IN.

WHERE ARE YOU ARE RIGHT NOW? , AT THE KING.

JUST MY HUSBAND, JOE, 10 47 MILLBURY ROAD.

UH, WOULD YOU LIKE TO HAVE A PRESENTATION OR WOULD YOU LIKE JUST TO ANSWER QUESTIONS? EITHER WAY.

GO AHEAD.

SO WE BOUGHT THE HOUSE, UM, FOUR YEARS AGO.

THREE OR THREE, THREE OR FOUR YEARS AGO.

AND, UM, I THOUGHT THE HOUSE WAS REALLY UGLY.

IT'S DARK.

IT'S IN A WOODED LOT.

AND SO IT'S EVEN DARKER WITH THE TREES BACK THERE.

AND THEN WE FOUND OUT THAT IT WAS ON THE OUTSKIRTS OF THE HISTORIC DISTRICT AFTER WE BOUGHT IT.

AND SO, UM, SOME OF THE PROPOSALS THAT, LIKE THE PORCH WAY ACROSS, THERE'S A PORCH ON BOTH SIDES, BUT OUR DRIVEWAY IS HERE IN THE FRONT DOOR IS HERE.

IT'S REALLY ODD.

AND THEN THERE'S THAT SIDE PORCH.

THERE'S A LITTLE SWING THERE.

AND SO NOBODY EVER CAME TO THE, WOULD COME TO THE FRONT DOOR.

SO WE JUST SAID, WELL, CAN WE NOT JUST SWING IT OVER AND PUT IT WHERE IT BELONGS? RIGHT NEXT TO THE DRIVEWAY WHEN, UM, THE STONE WORK IN THE FRONT, AT THE FRONT PORCH NOW IS ALL BROKEN AND CRACKED THROUGH THE, UM, MORTAR AND THAT TYPE OF STUFF.

AND, UH, OVER THE PAST TWO YEARS, WE FOUND OUT THAT IT'S LEAKING PRETTY BAD THROUGH THE ROOF.

AND SO, UM, FICA, UH, IS OUR BUILDER AND HE SAID, KATHY, I DON'T KNOW IF I CAN GET THIS TO GO ANY OTHER WAY, BUT TO TEAR IT DOWN 'CAUSE WE'RE GONNA HAVE TO REPLACE THAT.

SO THAT WAS ONE THING.

AND THEN, UM, ALL OF THE WINDOWS NEED TO BE REPLACED.

YOU CAN'T OPEN A

[00:40:01]

ONE OF THEM.

ALL OF THEM ARE STUCK.

UM, THE WINDOWS ON THE BACKSIDE OF THE HOUSE, EVERY ONE OF THEM ARE MISMATCHED.

SO I DON'T GUESS WHOEVER OWNED IT BEFORE US CAME AND ASKED FOR PERMISSION TO CHANGE ANYTHING ON THE BACK 'CAUSE IT'S ALL MISMATCHED.

UM, SO THIS'LL BE OUR RETIREMENT HOME.

SO WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO DO IS KEEP THE INTEGRITY OF THE HOME, BUT GIVE US MORE SPACE SO WE'RE NOT RIGHT ON TOP OF EACH OTHER.

UM, WE DID GET, GET MORE RECOMMENDATIONS AND, UM, WE DON'T MIND, YOU KNOW, NOT DOING THE, THE POST IN THE FRONT AND DOING ROT IRON.

THAT'S FINE.

UM, AND THE SHINGLES IN THE ROOF, YOU KNOW, THAT'S A NO-BRAINER.

WE THOUGHT THAT WAS REAL PRETTY.

ANYWAY, THE, THE ONLY BAD THING ABOUT IT'S THAT STONE, IT'S GOT MULTIPLE PLACES OF CRACKS.

IT'S GOT MULTIPLE PLACES OF, UM, MOLD THAT'S GROWING UP IN THROUGH THERE.

ALL OF OUR, UM, DUCT WORK IS UNDERGROUND OR ON THE BOTTOM, SO ALL THAT HAS TO BE MOVED UP INTO THE ROOF.

AND THAT WAS ONE OF THE REASONS WHY WE WANTED TO BRACE THE PITCH UP, TO GET ALL OF THAT STUFF UP OFF OF THE GROUND.

THEY LITERALLY HAVE FANS THAT ARE PLUGGED IN, BLOWING AIR OUT FROM UNDER THE HOUSE TO KEEP THE MOLD DOWN.

SO, DO WE HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? OH, THE ARCHITECTURAL DETAIL ON THE SIDE TO DIVIDE THE TWO MM-HMM .

UM, THE FON SAKE IS HIS DAD DOES BRICK WORK, AND SO HE SAID HE COULD DO A REAL PRETTY DESIGN WITH THE BRICKS TO SEPARATE THE TWO HOUSES, SO THAT WE'LL HAVE THAT BRICK WORK DONE.

APPRECIATE IT.

WE HAVE ANYTHING, HAVE ANY QUESTIONS? JUST QUESTIONS ABOUT PAINTING THE BRICK.

GO AHEAD.

BECAUSE THERE ARE TWO HOUSES ON BOTH SIDES THAT HAVE RED BRICK MM-HMM .

BUT THEN, LIKE YOU SAID, THE ONES ACROSS THE STREET HAVE SIDING OR DIFFERENT COLOR.

I DON'T KNOW HOW STRAIGHT.

I THINK THEY'RE WOODEN.

YEAH, YEAH, YEAH.

SO I, I I TAKE IT, THE MOTION HERE IS DEFER SO THAT WE CAN HAVE MORE OF A, A COMPREHENSIVE CONVERSATION ABOUT HISTORIC.

IT SEEMS WE HAVE A LOT GOING ON.

RIGHT? SO WITH THE, THEIR FRONT DOOR EXISTING NOW AND YEAH.

COLOR PAINT.

WHERE THE FRONT DOOR IS.

NOW, IF YOU, ON THAT TOP PICTURE THERE WHERE THAT WINDOW IS, THE DOOR IS BESIDE IT.

SO IT'S THE, YOU COME BY THE SWING, THAT LITTLE PORCH, AND THEN THE DOOR OPENS RIGHT THERE.

SO THAT SPACE IS TINY.

SO INSTEAD OF USING THAT SPACE, JUST DEAD SPACE, WE JUST WANTED TO MOVE THE DOOR SO WE HAD MORE ROOM.

AND, AND, AND WE HADN'T EVEN TALKED ABOUT PAINTING THE BRICK, REALLY.

SO WE WELL, I THINK THIS GOES BACK TO WHAT CARSON WAS SAYING.

THIS IS A, IT'S A NEW DESIGN ON THAT HOUSE.

SO IT'S ALMOST LIKE A NEW HOUSE BEING BUILT IN THAT, UM, WITH THAT, WITH SOME OF THOSE BONES THERE.

SO WHAT, WHAT WE, AND I LIKE TO TELL PEOPLE ABOUT THE GUIDELINES 'CAUSE THE PUBLIC DOESN'T ALWAYS READ 'EM ALL THROUGH AND THROUGH THE GUIDELINES TELL US, UM, ONE, WE SHOULD LISTEN TO THEM, BUT ALSO THEY SAY WE SHOULDN'T PAINT ANY BRICK.

WE'VE HAD, UH, SURVEYS IN PROFESSIONALS TELL US THE SAME THING.

DAMAGE BRICK.

IT ACTUALLY HURTS THE BRICK WORSE BECAUSE THE BRICK CAN'T BREATHE ANYMORE.

AND SO THAT'S WHAT WE STRUGGLE WITH.

YOU SEE NEWER HOMES, UH, THAT ARE PAINTED BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE HISTORIC VALUE AND THEY, WE HAVE A LITTLE LEEWAY AND THEY GET PAINTED.

BECAUSE THIS NEW CONSTRUCTION, SO ON OLD CONSTRUCTION THAT WAS NOT PAINTED.

IT IT IS, IT'S VERY HARD FOR US TO LOOK AT THAT AND, AND TALK ABOUT PAINT.

UH, AND EVEN THE ARCHITECTS WILL AGREE.

EVERY CONTRACTOR WHO'S EVER COME IN HERE HAS SAID, THAT'S GONNA BE REALLY HARD TO, UH, MATCH.

WELL, SURE IT'S , BUT THAT'S NOT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT.

UH, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT KEEPING HISTORIC VALUE AND WE HAVE KIND OF A SET OF RULES.

AND SO THAT'S WHAT WE HAVE TO DISCUSS ON A CASE BY CASE BASIS.

SO WE APPRECIATE YOU IN HERE.

UH, AND SO WE CAN KIND OF WORK OUR WAY THROUGH IT.

I'D RATHER SELL THE HOUSE.

I MEAN, I'M JUST DEAD SERIOUS.

I WOULD RATHER SELL THE HOUSE IF I CAN'T DO SOMETHING WITH THAT BRICK.

IT'S JUST, IT'S SO DARK AND DINGY AND BROKEN UP.

AND WE'RE GONNA, YOU KNOW, PAY A LOT OF MONEY TO GET THIS, TO MAKE IT EVEN THE NEIGHBORHOOD EVEN NICER.

I GET IT.

I UNDERSTAND.

BUT IT'S, IT'S A SUBSTANTIAL AMOUNT OF WORK.

TODAY, MY FIRST EXPERIENCE WITH THE VINYL, UH, I HEAR IT LOUD AND CLEAR AND AGREE WITH IT.

UH, JUST ON A, I GUESS PART OF OUR DECISION HERE IS TO DELAY AND HAVE A WORK SESSION.

AND IN THAT REGARD, I'D JUST LIKE TO SAY THAT I COULDN'T VOTE FOR THIS TODAY BECAUSE THE SITE PLAN, YOU NOW HAVE A CARPORT IT, THE SITE PLAN DOESN'T PHYSICALLY YOU CANNOT DRIVE IN WITH A 15 FOOT RADIUS INTO A CARPORT.

AND SO THE DRIVE NEEDS TO BE ADDRESSED.

THERE'S WHERE THE GATE IS, THERE'S THINGS THAT ARE INADEQUATE AND, UH, NOT COMPLETE ON YOUR SITE PLAN.

AND THEN IN THAT SAME REGARD WITH THE, WITH THE ELEVATIONS THAT ARE SUBMITTED, JUST AS OF

[00:45:01]

THERE'S ONE THING THAT I WILL NEVER GET MY VOTE IS WHEN A COLUMN AND TURE DO NOT ALIGN AND I'M MY WHAT? ALL THE DETAIL.

THE WHAT? IT'S A DETAIL ISSUE THAT WE COULD GO OVER IN A WORK SESSION INSTEAD OF GETTING INTO THE NUTS AND BOLTS HERE.

BUT THERE'S, THE DETAILING OF YOUR SET OF PLANS IS INADEQUATE WITHIN THIS DISTRICT.

AND SO THERE'S, THERE'S MULTIPLE THINGS I COULD TOUCH ON.

UH, THE RHYTHM OF THE RIGHT SIDE VERSUS THE LEFT SIDE AS FAR AS COLUMN SPACING.

AND YOU EVEN NEED ONE.

THERE'S A LOT OF ISSUES TO BE DEALT WITH TO, TO, UH, I THINK MAKE THIS A HOME THAT YOU WOULD BE PROUD OF.

AND ALSO WE WOULD BE PROUD TO SAY IT'S IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT WITH, WITH THE CHANGES YOU'RE PROPOSING.

WHAT ARE THE CEILING HEIGHTS IN THE HOUSE NOW? NINE.

NO, PROBABLY EIGHT FOOT.

THEY'RE THEY'RE PRETTY, THEY'RE PRETTY LOW.

YEAH, THEY'RE EIGHT.

SO, BECAUSE WE SAID THAT THAT'S RIGHT THERE.

EIGHT AND WE WERE PROPOSING TO NINE.

THAT HELPS.

WELL, LET'S, DO WE WANNA TALK TO DEFER OR WHERE ARE WHERE ARE YOU? I MEAN, I THINK WE OUGHT TO DEFER SO THAT WE CAN HAVE A WORK SESSION AND TRY TO HELP GUIDE THEM A LITTLE BIT AND THEN YOU GUYS CAN MAKE THE DECISION WHETHER YOU WANT TO, MAYBE WE CAN ADDRESS 'EM ONE AT A TIME BETTER.

IT'S, I MEAN, I CAN, TERRY WOULD GIVE YOU OPINIONS OF MY OPINIONS, BUT THEY'RE TWO PEOPLE ON THE STAFF THAT ARE REALLY GOOD AT THREE.

I DON'T, I THAT PROBABLY ARE REALLY GOOD AT THAT, THAT I WOULD PROBABLY LEAN INTO TO LEAD US.

BUT YEAH, I MEAN, I'M NOT A, I MEAN, WHILE WE'RE HERE, I MIGHT AS WELL SAY IT.

I, I'M NOT A FAN OF USING COLUMNS THAT ARE OF NATURAL WOOD IN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

IF YOU LOOK UP AND DOWN THE STREET, IT'S PRETTY TRADITIONAL ARCHITECTURE.

THE ONE THAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO ACROSS THE STREET.

I LOOK AT IT EVERY TIME I DRIVE BY AND I GO, WHAT HAPPENED? YOU KNOW? SO, UM, AS FAR AS THE PAINTED BRICK, YOU CAN DRIVE DOWN THE STREET AND THERE'S, THERE'S SEVERAL HOUSES THAT HAVE PAINTED BRICK.

I'M NOT SAYING THAT WE WANT TO, LET'S GO WITH CHAD, YOU KNOW, TO, TO DO THE HISTORIC, YOU KNOW, KIND OF TO KEEP THE BRICK.

BUT EVEN IF WE WERE TO EVALUATE THAT, I WOULD SAY THAT WE DON'T WANT TO GO WITHIN APA BRICK.

I WOULD SAY THE SOMETHING THAT'S, YOU KNOW, MORE, YOU KNOW, LIKE A GERMAN SMEAR OR A WHITEWASH IS PROBABLY MORE INDICATIVE OF A HISTORIC DISTRICT.

SO I DON'T WANT TO, I KNOW I CAN SEE AS I'M LOOKING AT YOU, I FEEL YOUR PAIN AS WE SAID THAT.

SO , I JUST WANT TO GIVE YOU A LITTLE HOPE THAT MAYBE WE CAN HAVE THAT CONVERSATION.

UM, AND THEN AS YOU START TO LOOK ACROSS THE ARCHITECTURE OF THE HOME, I MEAN, THERE'S, THERE'S A FEW HOMES ON THERE THAT YOU CAN REALLY LOOK AT THAT HAVE THE COLUMNS WITH THE WHITE AND THE UH, WHITE PAINTED COLUMNS AND SO FORTH.

AND, YOU KNOW, YOUR BUILDER, HE CAN GO GET A NATURAL STONE.

HE CAN TAKE THAT STONE OFF, HE CAN RELAY IT, AND THERE CAN BE A NATURAL STONE.

I WOULD NEVER APPROVE A SYNTHETIC STONE, A STICK ON STONE, WHICH WAS SHOWN IN THAT PICTURE.

I WOULD ABSOLUTELY SAY NO.

BUT IF YOU WANT TO GO LAY A NEW STONE VENEER, I WOULD SAY, YEAH, WE COULD PROBABLY FIND SOMETHING.

IT'S PROBABLY NOT GONNA BE A STACK STONE.

IT LOOKS LIKE THAT WAS A GIMME THE ARCHITECTURE NAME OF NOT STACKED, BUT IT'S TURNED SO THAT THE STONES ARE FACING.

RATHER THAN LAYERED.

I THINK THERE'S OPPORTUNITY TO MAKE THIS HOME PROBABLY WHAT YOU WANT IT.

I JUST DON'T THINK YOUR ARCHITECT IS THOUGHT THROUGH, UH, CONTEXT OF THE REST OF THE NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT HE COULD GET THERE WITH A LITTLE GUIDANCE.

UH, CHAIR, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO NOTE, UM, THAT THE HD C'S NEXT SCHEDULED MEETING IS JUNE 25TH.

AND I DON'T BELIEVE WE HAVE ANYTHING ON THE AGENDA AT THE MOMENT.

SO, UM, IF YOU WANT TO DEFER FOR A WORK SESSION, WE COULD HAVE A WORK SESSION AT THE REGULAR SCHEDULED MEETING.

YOU THINK THAT'S ALL RIGHT, JAMIE? DOES THAT SOUND WE COULD DO THAT IF THAT'S, UM, SOMETHING THAT, IF THAT WORKS WITH YOUR TIMING, WHAT DO WE NEED TO DO? UH, WELL, SHOULD WE HAVE MORE DRAWINGS OR BETTER UNDERSTANDING OF WINDOWS AND MATERIALS? UH, WHAT DO YOU THINK? SINCE THE, SINCE WE'VE GOT SOME TIME, UM, IT COULD, Y'ALL COULD PROVIDE SOME MORE DETAILS TO ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE CONDITIONS ABOUT THE WINDOWS AND, AND THINGS.

BUT I GUESS I, I PUT THE QUESTION TO Y'ALL.

DO YOU WANT THEM TO GO AHEAD AND START REVISING THE DRAWINGS TO ADDRESS SOME OF THE FEEDBACK TODAY AND THEN HAVE THAT AT A MEETING THE DRIVEWAY? I THINK THAT'S THE FEEL OF THE COMMITTEE.

IN THE CENTER OF THE GABLES ARE NOW OFF CENTERING THE GABLES? TO ME, IT'D BE MORE IMPORTANT TO HAVE THOSE WINDOWS CENTERED WITH THE NEW GABLE THAN IT WOULD BE TO ADD WINDOWS THAT NO ONE'S EVER GONNA SEE.

I'M, I'M WONDERING IF, UNLESS IT'S POINTED OUT IF THEY KNOW WHAT TO DO.

YEAH, I THINK THEY NEED TO HAVE AN ARCHITECT PRESENT OR WHAT THEY'RE GONNA START FOR THE DESIGN PROFESSIONAL.

IF, IF IT WAS DRAFTSMAN OR ARCHITECT YEAH.

WHOMEVER HOME DESIGNER WOULD BE USED.

THAT, I MEAN, THERE, THERE, THERE WAS MENTION ABOUT ADDING WINDOWS ON THE WEST, ON THE WEST SIDE WHERE THE NEW ADDITION IS THAT, DID Y'ALL NOTICE THAT THE EXISTING WINDOWS THAT USED TO BE

[00:50:01]

SO THERE'S SO MANY COMMENTS WE CAN MAKE, JAMIE, MAYBE WE SHOULD JUST HAVE A TRUE WORK SESSION WITHOUT NEW PLANS.

AND THEN WE TALK ABOUT THE PLANS THAT WE SEE NOW AND THEN MOVE ON FROM THERE.

SO I WOULD SAY JUST COME TO THE WORK SESSION AND WE'LL, AND BRING YOUR ARCHITECT.

'CAUSE HE'S GONNA WANT TO HEAR THIS SO THAT HE'S NOT SPENDING YOUR MONEY AND YOU TRANSMITTING IT FROM US TO YOU TO HIM.

HE NEEDS TO HEAR IT DIRECTLY SO THAT HE'S EFFICIENT IN DRAWING WHAT THESE GUYS TELL HIM.

WE CAN HELP GET YOU THERE.

I THINK THAT'S, I THINK THAT'S A FIRST STEP.

PLEASE PRAY ABOUT THE PAINT.

, I'M PRAYING ABOUT THE PAINT.

YOU'LL OKAY.

WE DO THANK YOU.

OR THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

SO WE NEED TO MAKE A TRUE MOTION.

WE DO NEED TO HAVE A MOTION.

ALRIGHT.

THEY CAN MAKE A MOTION TO DEFER, UM, UH, WHAT THIS CASE, 26 0 6 4 7, UH, TO A WORK SESSION, UH, WITH THE CLIENT OR WITH THE APPLICANT.

CAN I HAVE A ROLL CALL? COMMISSIONER WALKER? AYE.

COMMISSIONER DEAN? YES.

THANK Y'ALL.

CASE NUMBER 2 6 1 1 3 8 2 5 3 NATCHEZ STREET.

[7.c Case #261138 – 253 Natchez Street – Request approval of a Certificate of Appropriateness (CofA) for demolition on a residential dwelling and accessory structure]

CASE.

DO WE HEAR FROM ANYONE? YES.

I'D LIKE TO RECUSE MYSELF FROM THIS CASE.

THANK YOU SIR.

? I THOUGHT THAT WAS COMING.

HE'S GOOD TO SIT IN THE GALLERY IF YOU'D LIKE.

SURE.

MAY HAVE SOMEBODY MORE EDUCATED TO DO THAT.

DO WE HAVE A PRESENTATION FROM STAFF? YES SIR.

GO AHEAD.

GOOD AFTERNOON.

CARSON LOONEY, THE HOMEOWNER AND APPLICANT OF 2 53.

NATCHEZ STREET IS REQUESTING A CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR DEMOLITION OF THE PROPERTY AND IT IS CURRENTLY ZONED R ONE, LOW DENSITY RESIDENTIAL.

THE HOME IS WITHIN THE HISTORIC DISTRICT, BUT IT'S NOT LISTED ON THE HISTORIC REGISTER.

UM, IT WAS BUILT IN 1915, BUT LARGE RENOVATIONS OVER TIME HAS DIMINISHED ITS ARCHITECTURAL INTEGRITY.

THE HISTORIC, UM, OVERLAY IN THE GUIDELINES HAVE BEEN ESTABLISHED SINCE 1989.

UH, REC RECENT RECORDS SHOW THAT 36 DWELLINGS AND 45 ACCESSORY STRUCTURES HAVE BEEN LOST SINCE 1991.

THE CURRENT REQUEST IS FOR DEMOLITION ONLY OF THE EXISTING STRUCTURES.

THAT IS THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE AND THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, THE CARPORT.

UM, AND THE APPLICANT HAS NOT PROVIDED STAFF WITH ANY DRAWINGS, PLANS OR SITE PLANS FOR THE NEW HOME.

HERE IS THE CURRENT FLOOR PLAN OF THE MAIN STRUCTURE AND THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.

UM, THE HOMEOWNER, UM, DID ATTEMPT TO PAINT, AS YOU CAN SEE, THE BEFORE AND THE AFTER.

UM, HE CALLS IT LIPSTICK ON A PIG, BUT, UM, , HE, HE ATTEMPTED TO PAINT IT TO COVER UP SOME OF THE, UM, DAMAGE DONE TO THE HOME.

BUT AS YOU CAN SEE, THERE'S STILL SOME, UM, THINGS THAT ARE NON-COMPLIANT AS FAR AS THE WIRING, UM, THE, SORRY, THE ALUMINUM SIDE AND IS IN, IN POOR CONDITION.

AND, UM, A LOT OF ROT WITHIN THE WOOD OF THE HOME.

HE ALSO PROVIDED US WITH SOME, UM, INTERIOR PICTURES.

AS YOU CAN SEE THAT THERE'S A LOT OF TERMITE DAMAGE, UM, FLOODING, UM, STRUCTURAL, UH, FAILURES AND ALSO OTHER HAZARDOUS CONDITIONS.

HE ALSO PROVIDED US WITH, UM, THE CONDITIONS OF THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.

AS YOU CAN SEE, THE ROOF, UM, IS A, IT'S A FLAT ROOF, UM, THAT'S NOT PROPERLY, UM, STRUCTURED TO THE COLUMNS THAT, UM, BASICALLY HOLD UP THE MAIN BEAM.

AND IT'S ALSO ROTTED THE WOOD IS ROTTED THROUGHOUT.

UM, THE HDC GUIDELINES

[00:55:01]

SAY THAT DEMOLITION IS APPROPRIATE IF THE BUILDING HAS LOST ITS ARCHITECTURAL OR HISTORICAL INTEGRITY AND ITS REMOVAL WON'T HARM THE DISTRICT VISUALLY OR IF DENIAL LEADS TO ECONOMIC HARDSHIPS.

STAFF RECOMMENDS APPROVAL OF THE CERTIFICATE OF APPROPRIATENESS FOR THE DEMOLITION OF THE PRIMARY STRUCTURE AND ACCESSORY STRUCTURE.

UM, IT'S IN TWO SEPARATE, UM, RECOMMENDATIONS IN TWO SEPARATE MOTIONS, SORRY.

BUT, UM, AS THEY BOTH COMPLY WITH THE GUIDELINES FOR DEMOLITION OF THE HISTORIC BUILDING, UM, THE EXAMPLE MOTION IS ON YOUR SCREEN ALONG WITH THE APPLICANT'S NEXT STEPS AND THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL ARE IN THE BACKUP SLIDE IF YOU NEED TO SEE THEM.

BUT THE APPLICANT DOES AGREE WITH ALL THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL.

AND THIS IS STAFF PRESENTATION.

DO WE HAVE QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? NO ONE.

EXCELLENT.

WOULD THE APPLICANT LIKE TO SPEAK ? CARSON LOONEY? I'M HERE WITH MY WIFE JENNY, 1 95 EAST POP AVENUE, CARVILLE.

UH, I'M IN AGREEMENT.

WE'RE IN AGREEMENT WITH THE STAFF.

UH, RECOMMENDATIONS, UH, WE ACTUALLY LIVED IN THE HOME AFTER WE SOLD OUR HOME A COUPLE YEARS BACK AND THAT WAS A NICE EXPERIENCE THAT I WOULD NOT WANNA REPEAT.

JUST SO YOU KNOW, THE INTENT WHEN WE PURCHASED THE HOME WAS TO TEAR IT DOWN.

IT WAS IN REALLY POOR CONDITION.

WE FIXED IT UP ENOUGH TO, TO MAKE IT HABITABLE AND, UH, LIVE THERE FOR A PERIOD OF TIME.

LOOKED AT EVERY WAY POSSIBLE TO ADD ON AND RENOVATE AND EVERY ONE OF THOSE DOORS WERE CLOSED.

UH, IT WAS JUST INFEASIBLE.

SO WE'D LIKE, UH, YOUR APPROVAL IF POSSIBLE.

THANK YOU, SIR.

HAVE ANY QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? SO JUST DOUBLE, DOUBLE CHECKING HERE.

DID IT DIDN'T GET INCLUDED IN THE 2021 SURVEY AS WELL AS THE OTHER HOME FROM THIS, THIS MEETING, RIGHT? IS IT IN THE 2021 SURVEY? THIS ONE WAS STUDIED IN 2021 AND IT AFFIRMED THE SAME RESULTS FROM 2004.

WHICH WAS THAT IT IS NOT, NOT ELIGIBLE.

RIGHT? THIS MIGHT HAVE SIGNIFICANCE.

ALRIGHT.

DO YOU HAVE ANY DISCUSSION? DO YOU HAVE A MOTION, UH, MOTION TO APPROVE CERTIFICATE APPROPRIATENESS FOR THE DEMOLITION OF PRIMARY STRUCTURE AND THE ACCESSORY STRUCTURE STRUCTURE LOCATED AT 2 53 NATCHES STREET, SUB CONDITIONS AND EXHIBITS TWO AND THREE.

JAMIE, DOES THAT SATISFY THE TWO MOTIONS NEEDED? UH, WE CAN MAKE THAT WORK.

CAN WE HAVE A ROLL CALL? UH, COMMISSIONER DEAN? YES.

UH, OTHER BUSINESS FOR US? I'M GONNA MENTION, UM, A COUPLE THINGS ON ADMINISTRATIVE CASES.

OKAY, JAMIE, DO YOU HAVE ANY,

[8 Development Updates (new cases, administrative reviews, etc.)]

THIS ISN'T A NEW FENCE PERMIT.

UH, THERE'S A HOUSE AT 2 74 WEST POPLAR.

IT'S A NEW HOUSE, I BELIEVE JAN GRIMES OWNS THE HOUSE.

JACOB'S BEEN WORKING WITH WITH JAN ON SOME ALTERATIONS TO AN EXISTING FENCE TO PUT A WIRE MESH ON IT.

AND THAT SHE DID, HAS PROVIDED DETAILS THAT SHOWS THAT IT'S A VINYL COATED BLACK VINYL COATED, UH, MESH SO THAT THAT IS ALLOWED.

SO JUST WANTED TO MAKE Y'ALL AWARE OF THAT, THAT WE WERE AWARE OF THAT AND WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH HER ON THAT ON SIGNS.

WE STILL HAVEN'T ISSUED THE 2 69 SOUTH CENTER STREET, SO WELL, MED SPA SIGN, THAT'S STILL PENDING.

AND WE DID ISSUE SIGN PERMITS FOR THE STAMPS BUILDING AT 180 5, UH, MAIN STREET THAT CHANGED OUT THEIR MULTI-TENANT GROUND SIGNS.

AND WE DID NOT APPROVE ANY EXTERIOR ALTERATIONS OVER THE PAST MONTH AS FAR AS, UH, NEW CASES THAT MIGHT BE IN THE, THE HISTORIC DISTRICT.

I CAN'T THINK OF ANY NEW CASES THAT WE'VE RECEIVED, UM, LATELY.

UM, BUT IF Y'ALL HAVE ANY QUESTIONS USING THE DEVELOPMENT ACTIVITY MAP ABOUT DEVELOPMENT THAT'S GOING ON AROUND THE THE TOWN SQUARE AREA, WE'RE, WE'RE PLEASED TO, TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU HAVE.

ANY QUESTIONS? THE, UH, I WAS, I ASKED YOU THE OTHER DAY, THE, UH, DRAINAGE, DID YOU LEARN ANY MORE ABOUT

[01:00:01]

THE, THEY'RE DOING DRAINAGE WORK ON WALNUT, CORRECT? IS THAT RIGHT? YES, THAT'S, WHAT'S THAT DOING? ? UM, IT'S NOT, THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE DOING.

ARE WE TALKING DOWN BY THE, BY ROULETTE OR WHERE, WHERE IT'S CLOSER TO ROULETTE.

IT'S, IT'S TIED IN WITH THE LARGER, UH, DOWNTOWN DRAINAGE.

SYSTEM.

SO IT IS LIKE IN FRONT OF THE AT AND T BUILDING DOWN, DOWN, DOWN THAT WAY FROM WHAT DALE WAS SAYING.

SO SUBGRADE DRAINAGE.

EXCELLENT.

I JUST, SOMEONE MENTIONED IT AND I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT THE DETAILS WERE.

FAR AS, UH, OTHER BUSINESS AND THINGS.

DALE CAN LET YOU KNOW A LOT MORE IF, IF YOU HAVE MORE, MORE QUESTIONS AS, AS

[9 Other Business]

UM, MAIN STREET, I, AND I KNOW SEVERAL OF Y'ALL ARE WORK WITH MAIN STREET, UH, WE'VE BEEN WORKING WITH A GROUP, UH, A, A SUBCOMMITTEE ON BRINGING THE PRESERVATION AWARDS BACK.

AND SO YOU'LL, YOU'LL SEE SOME PRE THIS WEEK ABOUT THAT.

CHAD, DO YOU WANNA ELABORATE? IT WAS TODAY, UH, WE ROLLED IT OUT TODAY.

TODAY.

OKAY, GREAT.

TODAY.

SO THERE'S A SURVEY ON FACEBOOK WHERE YOU CAN VOTE FOR THE PRESERVATION AWARDS NOMINEES AND IT'S HOUSES, IT'S COMMERCIAL BUILDINGS, IT'S SIGNAGE ON SQUARE, IT'S ALL KIND OF CATEGORIES.

SURVEYS OUT NOW.

IT'LL RUN ALL THE WAY THROUGH JULY.

WE'LL AWARD THE AWARDS IN OCTOBER AT THE PRESERVATION PARTY.

AND THE PROCESS FOR SELECTION IS A LITTLE, IT'S DIFFERENT FROM LAST TIME IN THAT THERE'S A STEERING COMMITTEE OF MAIN STREET THAT WILL SELECT NOMINEES THAT ARE ELIGIBLE.

AND, AND THEY'VE DEFINITELY LOOKED AT YOUR THINGS THAT YOU'VE APPROVED.

THEY WOULDN'T WANT TO.

UH, PUT SOMETHING OUT THERE THAT YOU HAVE NOT APPROVED OR THAT DOESN'T MEET THE GUIDELINES.

THAT'S RIGHT.

THE COMMITTEE, THE COMMITTEE MADE DENOMINATIONS, THE PUBLIC CHOOSES THE WINNER.

AND THEN THE PUBLIC IS GONNA CHOOSE FROM THAT LIST, THAT CURATED LIST OF, OF WHO THEY THINK IS, IS THE BEST, UH, AND MOST SIGNIFICANT PROJECT.

SO WE'RE, WE'RE EXCITED ABOUT THAT.

AND THAT'S, WE'RE WE'RE ENDING PRESERVATION MONTH.

THE MAYOR EARLIER THIS, THIS MONTH, DESIGNATED THIS MONTH, THIS RESERVATION MONTH.

SO ALL THAT'S INTERRELATED AND IT'S GOOD, GOOD FOR THE COMMUNITY AND GOOD FOR RAISING AWARENESS ON THE 2050 PLAN.

SEVERAL OF Y'ALL PARTICIPATED IN THOSE ACTIVITIES, UH, WITH THE CHARETTE A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO.

UH, THERE WAS A DOWNTOWN FOCUS GROUP AND, AND WALKING TOUR.

UM, SOME, SOME OF Y'ALL WERE, WERE ON THAT AND PARTICIPATED WITH THAT, THAT, BUT, UH, THERE WERE SOME GREAT, GREAT THOUGHTS THAT CAME OUT OF THAT, THAT TOUR AND THAT, THAT WHOLE WEEK RELATED TO THE DOWNTOWN AREA.

SO THE, THE STEERING COMMITTEE NOW WILL BE CHARGED WITH UNPACKING ALL OF THAT.

SO IT'S GONNA TAKE 'EM MONTHS TO WORK, WORK THROUGH THAT, WHETHER IT'S DISCUSSIONS ABOUT PARKING OR WAY FINDING SIGNAGE OR VARIOUS THINGS THAT THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO.

AND, AND THEY, THEY HAVE A MEETING NEXT WEEK, SO WE'LL CONTINUE THEIR, THEIR MONTHLY MEETINGS WORKING TOWARDS, UH, DEVELOPING THE PLAN AND UP UPDATING THE PLANS THAT WE HAVE.

UH, THE NEXT MEETINGS WE HAVE TWO, ALLISON MENTIONED, UH, JUNE 25TH.

SO NOW YOU HAVE A, A NON-VOTING ITEM ON THERE.

AND WE'LL SEE IF YOU HAVE ANY OTHER, NEXT WEEK IS THE DEADLINE.

SO YOU MIGHT, YOU MIGHT GET A VOTING CASE.

I GUESS WE NEED TO ASK THE, THE LOONEY IF Y'ALL ARE SUBMITTING HOUSE PLANS HERE SOON.

, YOU DON'T HAVE TO ANSWER THAT .

UH, BUT AT SOME POINT THEY'LL BE COMING TO YOU WITH, UH, WITH THE HOUSE PLANS.

AND THEN JUNE, JUNE 17TH, UH, CALLED MEETING AT THE HISTORIC COMMISSION, UH, TO LOOK AT THE BRICK COLOR.

AND SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE DATE THAT SEEMS LIKE WE CAN GET ALL OF Y'ALL THERE AT THE SAME TIME.

ALTHOUGH MR. GIBBON MAY BE A COUPLE MINUTES LATE COMING FROM ANOTHER APPOINTMENT.

I MEAN, HOPEFULLY THE RIGHT, THE, THE WEATHER WILL HOLD OUT.

BUT THAT WILL BE SET UP AS A VOTING MEETING AND IF YOU, IF YOU LIKE WHAT YOU SEE, UH, YOU'LL BE ABLE TO MAKE A MOTION TO APPROVE.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT YOU SEE, YOU COULD MOVE TO DEFER THE DECISION TO A FUTURE MEETING AND WE'LL ASK FOR ANOTHER SET OF SAMPLES.

UH, YOUR MINUTES WERE VERY SPECIFIC.

MICHAEL'S MOTION LAST MONTH WAS VERY SPECIFIC ON WHAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR.

SO WE, WE PASSED THAT ALONG TO THE APPLICANT AND, AND HO HOPEFULLY THEY'LL TAKE THAT TO HEART AND PROVIDE SOMETHING.

SO HOPEFULLY THEY DO INTEND TO PUT UP MORE THAN ONE SAMPLE.

YEAH, THAT WAS HONOR.

WE'LL, WE'LL ENCOURAGE THAT.

YEAH, ENCOURAGE THAT.

AND IT HAS PLENTY OF TIME TO DRAW.

THAT'S ALL WE HAVE.