[1 Call to order]
[00:00:10]
WE'RE GONNA START THE MEETING FOR Y'ALL WHO JUST CAME IN.
IF YOU WANT TO HAVE ANY COMMENTS AT ANY POINT DURING THE MEETING, PLEASE FILL OUT ONE OF THESE PUBLIC COMMENT CARDS AND TURN THOSE IN.
WE WILL GO OVER THE RULES FOR PUBLIC COMMENTS HERE IN JUST A SECOND.
UH, LET'S START WITH THE ROLL CALL, PLEASE.
[3 Approval of Minutes]
I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM AUGUST, PLEASE.I NEED, I NEED AN ORIGINAL MOTION FIRST.
MOTION TO APPROVE THE, THE MINUTES.
SO VOTE FOR APPROVAL FOR THE MINUTES FROM AUGUST.
[4 Approval of Agenda (additions/deletions)]
ALL RIGHT.ANY, UH, ADDITIONS OR DELETIONS FOR TODAY'S, UM, AGENDA? UH, NO.
MR. CHAIRMAN, WE HAVE TWO ITEMS ON THE AGENDA, AND THEY ARE EXACTLY AS WE ADVERTISED.
AND I APOLOGIZE FOR THE, THE SOUND.
YOU MAY SOME NOTICE SOMETHING'S DIFFERENT.
IT FEELS LIKE WE'RE IN A STADIUM, LIKE A, A HIGH SCHOOL FOOTBALL STADIUM, STADIUM STADIUM.
AND WE, UH, WE RECENTLY CHANGED OUT OUR AB EQUIPMENT AND OUR, UH, VIDEO RECORDING FOR THE, THE WEBSITE.
SO I THINK WHAT WE'RE EXPERIENCING IS, UH, THE DAY ONE OF THAT.
AND SO WE'RE, THEY'RE TESTING IT OUT ON US.
AND THE MAYOR AND BOARD'S MEETING IS ON MONDAY.
YES, I MOVED TO ACCEPT THE AGENDA AS PRESENTED.
AND CAN I HAVE A VOTE? HETH? YES.
ALRIGHT, SO FOR THE PUBLIC, THIS IS ONE OF THE LARGER CROWDS WE'VE HAD IN A WHILE, AND LET ME KIND OF GO OVER OUR PROCESS.
THIS FIRST PART WHERE IT'S CITIZEN COMMENTS, THAT IS FOR COMMENTS IN GENERAL, NOT REGARDING EITHER ONE OF OUR TWO CASES FOR THE EVENING.
SO IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING THAT YOU WANT TO SAY ABOUT ZONING IN GENERAL, UH, YOU WILL HAVE THAT OPPORTUNITY HERE IN JUST A SECOND.
UM, FOUR CASES, THE TWO CASES THAT WE HAVE LATER ON, UH, THE ONE FOR STEEPLECHASE AND THEN THE ONE FOR EAST HOLMES ROAD.
UH, IF YOU HAVEN'T ALREADY, PLEASE FILL OUT ONE OF THESE CARDS, TURN IT IN.
YOU'LL BE RECOGNIZED AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME.
UH, WHEN YOU COME TO THE MICROPHONE, PLEASE STATE YOUR FULL NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD.
UM, MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE ROUGHLY THREE MINUTES.
IF YOU GO ONE SECOND OVER, I'M NOT GONNA PENALIZE YOU OR ANYTHING, BUT WE'RE NOT GONNA BE UP HERE FOR ANY FILIBUSTERS.
UM, THE ONLY OTHER COMMENT AS FAR AS THE CITIZEN COMMENTS THAT I HAVE IS, PLEASE NO CROSSTALK, UM, WHOEVER'S SPEAKING AT THE MICROPHONE, SPEAKING TO THE MICROPHONE, AND TRY NOT TO HAVE CONVERSATIONS WITH PEOPLE BEHIND YOU BECAUSE WE CAN'T PICK ALL OF THAT UP.
AND IT MAKES IT VERY CONFUSING FOR THE RECORD.
SO IF SOMEONE ELSE NEEDS TO SPEAK ON YOUR BEHALF OR ADD TO SOMETHING THAT YOU'RE SAYING, WE'LL INVITE THEM UP.
THEY CAN STATE THEIR NAME AND ADDRESS FOR THE RECORD, AND THEN THEY CAN ADD ON TO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
ALRIGHT, SO WITH THAT, WE WILL START WITH ANY CITIZEN COMMENTS FOR THE NIGHT, NOT REGARDING THE TWO CASES.
[6.a Case #252318 - Steeple Chase PD Subdivision, Section D Office Park - Request approval of a Variance to allow fewer parking spaces than one (1) parking space per 300 square feet of gross building area]
MOVE ON TO OUR FORMAL AGENDA.WE WILL START WITH CASE NUMBER 2 5 2 3 1 8 STEEPLECHASE SUBDIVISION, AND I'LL BE MAKING THAT PRESENTATION.
UH, AND I, BEFORE I GET INTO THE PRESENTATION, I THOUGHT I MIGHT SAY A COUPLE OF THINGS.
JUST AS A REMINDER ABOUT WHAT THE, THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS DOES IN THE WHY, WHY IT EVEN EXISTS.
THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS IS, WAS CREATED WHEN ZONING WAS CREATED BACK IN THE, THE EAR, EARLY PART OF THE, THE LAST CENTURY.
AND THE, THE WHOLE POINT IS TO KEEP A, A, A CITY FROM PASSING ZONING LAWS THAT WOULD MAKE
[00:05:01]
PROPERTY UNDEVELOPABLE UNUSABLE.AND SO YOU'RE KIND OF THE, YOU'RE THE RELIEF VALVE FOR THAT.
SO AS, AS I PRESENT THIS CASE, UM, THERE ARE ASPECTS OF IT THAT MAKE A COUPLE OF PROPERTIES POTENTIALLY UNUSABLE.
AND SO THAT, THAT IS VERY CONCERNING TO THE TOWN.
IT'S CONCERNING TO THE PROPERTY OWNER.
UM, ANOTHER ROLE OF THE BOARD OF ZONING APPEALS IS TO TRY TO MAKE SURE IF THERE IS A VARIANCE TO BE GRANTED, THAT THERE ARE ADVERSE, THE ADVERSE IMPACTS ARE, ARE MITIGATED TO THE, TO THE NEIGHBORHOOD.
AND SO THERE ARE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL IN YOUR PACKET.
THEY'RE AIMED AT TRYING TO MAKE SURE THAT IF THIS VARIANCE IS GRANTED, THE, THE, THE IMPACTS HAVE BEEN, BEEN MITIGATED TO THE, THE GREATEST EXTENT POSSIBLE.
SO JUST WANTED TO SAY THAT BEFORE WE GET INTO IT.
UH, SO THIS IS STEEPLECHASE OFFICE PARK, SECTION D.
IT'S LOCATED AT THE NORTHEAST CORNER OF GRAND STEEPLE DRIVE IN POPLAR AVENUE.
THE APPLICANT IS ASHWORTH ENGINEERING.
AND, UH, TWO, TWO REPRESENTATIVES FROM THAT FIRM ARE HERE TODAY.
AND ICON SOLUTIONS ALSO INITIATED THIS, THIS APPLICATION, THIS VARIANCE WOULD BE APPLICABLE TO THIS.
THE ENTIRE 12 LOT COMPLEX, ALL, ALL 12 OWNERS OF ALL 12 LOTS SIGNED, SIGNED THE APPLICATION.
AND THEY'RE KNOWN AS THE STEEPLE CHASE, OFFICE PARK, INC.
UH, SO SEVERAL DIFFERENT PROPERTIES IN THERE IN, IN THIS DEVELOPMENT.
SO THE SPECIFIC REQUEST IS TO, FOR A VARIANCE FROM THE MINIMUM PARKING REQUIREMENT AND THE MINIMUM FORMULA FOR OFFICES OF ONE SPACE PER 300 SQUARE FEET, THEIR REQUEST WOULD TRANSLATE TO A NEW FORMULA OF ONE SPACE PER 331 SQUARE FEET.
UM, AND ALSO AS A PART OF THAT, ON STREET PARKING WOULD BE ALLOWED TO BE COUNTED TOWARDS THE, THE MINIMUM THE EXISTING ZONING IS R ONE LOAD DENSITY RESIDENTIAL.
BUT THIS IS NOT A RESIDENTIAL DEVELOPMENT.
UH, THIS PART OF, OF STEEPLECHASE IS AN OFFICE DEVELOPMENT.
AND WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE, WHAT WE CALL THE OUTLINE PLAN FROM, FROM YEARS AGO, IT TALKS ABOUT MPO MEDICAL PROFESSIONAL OFFICE USES ARE ALLOWED AS WELL AS STANDARDS.
AND SO THAT'S HOW WE GOT TO THE, GOT TO ALLOW OFFICE USES IN THIS PARTICULAR DEVELOPMENT AND CAME UP WITH THE ONE SPACE PER 300 SQUARE FEET, WHICH IS A PRETTY COMMON FORMULA FOR, FOR OFFICE BUILDINGS.
THESE ARE SOME OLD DOCUMENTS FROM 1994 FROM THE VERY INCEPTION OF THE STEEP OIL CHASE SUBDIVISION.
YOU CAN SEE THE RESIDENTIAL ON THE UPPER LEFT HAND CORNER OF THE SCREEN.
YOU CAN SEE THE RESIDENTIAL KIND OF IN THE MIDDLE OF THE, THE, THE PLAN TO, TO THE NORTH.
AND I'VE GOT CIRCLED, UH, THE OFFICE COMPLEX.
SO THIS, THE IDEA OF THIS OFFICE COMPLEX COULD BE TRACED BACK TO 1994 WHEN THE PLAN DEVELOPMENT WAS INITIALLY APPROVED BY THE TOWN.
NOW, SOME OF OUR PLAN DEVELOPMENT STANDARDS HAVE CHANGED AND PROCESSES HAVE CHANGED OVER THE YEARS.
UM, AN OUTLINE PLAN TODAY FOR A PLAN DEVELOPMENT WOULD HAVE MUCH MORE INFORMATION ABOUT STANDARDS AND REGULATIONS AND, AND, AND JUST HOW, HOW THE PLAN DEVELOPMENT IS INTENDED TO WORK.
UH, BUT THIS IS A VERY, VERY OLD PLAN DEVELOPMENT, PROBABLY ONE OF OUR FIRST.
SO IT'S, UH, IT LOOKS A LOT DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE MIGHT DO TODAY.
THERE'S A SECOND SHEET TO THAT PLAN WHEN YOU BLOW IT UP.
IT DOES SHOW OFFICE AND ALONG POPLAR AVENUE OFFICES.
AND THERE ARE SIX OFFICE BUILDINGS SHOWN, WHICH THE, THE PLANS HAVE PRETTY CONSISTENTLY SHOWN THAT ON THE EAST SIDE OF GRAND STEEPLE ON THE WEST SIDE, UH, THEY'RE ORIGINALLY ENVISIONED OFFICES.
UH, BUT THAT'S NOT ACTUALLY WHAT GOT BUILT, HOW HOUSES WERE, WERE BUILT THERE.
THIS 1998 SITE PLAN, UH, UH, FOR THE OFFICE COMPLEX SHOWS, UM, UH, SHOWS THE ARRANGEMENT OF THE SIX, SIX LOT SIX BUILDINGS ON THE EAST SIDE AND TWO BUILDINGS ON THE WEST SIDE.
IN 2021, THE PLAN DEVELOPMENT WAS AMENDED FOR THE, THE SECTION E PORTION TO CONVERT THAT TO SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES.
SO THERE ARE A HANDFUL OF SINGLE FAMILY HOUSES THERE NOW INSTEAD OF OFFICE BUILDINGS.
UH, BUT ON THE RIGHT HAND SIDE, WHAT'S WHAT'S HIGHLIGHTED IN RED IS ACTUALLY THE, THE OFFICE COMPLEX THAT DATES BACK TO 1998.
SO AGAIN, THIS IS A SITE PLAN THAT WE HAD IN OUR, OUR RECORDS.
AND AS YOU ZOOM INTO THE, UM, IMAGES AND, AND ZOOM INTO THE, THE BUILDING FOOTPRINTS, YOU CAN SEE THAT THEY'RE, THE BUILDINGS WERE INTENDED TO BE ABOUT 4,000 SQUARE FEET OR MAYBE A A LITTLE BIT SMALLER, SMALLER THAN THAT.
SOME OF THE OTHER BUILDINGS ARE, ARE LARGE, SMALLER THAN INTENDED TO BE SMALLER THAN 4,000 SQUARE FEET.
SO THAT WAS WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY PLANNED.
AND THEY BUILT, UH, WITH THE, UH, THE VERY FIRST BUILDING IN 2000, THEY BUILT ALL OF THE PARKING THAT, THAT LARGE PARKING FIELD AND, UH, BUILDINGS HAVE BEEN BUILT INCREMENTALLY SINCE 2000.
AND, BUT THERE ARE STILL, THERE'S STILL SPACE, OR THERE'S STILL ONLY FOUR OF THE BUILDINGS THAT WERE ENVISIONED OF THE SIX HAVE, HAVE BEEN BUILT TO DATE.
SO THIS IS A PLAN FROM 2023 WHERE THEY WERE, UM,
[00:10:01]
ADDING SOME ADDITIONAL BUILDINGS IN.UH, THE, THE BUILDINGS ARE LARGER THAN THE, THE 4,000 SQUARE FEET THAT WAS, UH, ORIGINALLY PLANNED.
AND, AND INCIDENTALLY, THE, THE, THE VERY FIRST BUILDING WAS A LITTLE BIT BIGGER THAN, THAN 4,000 ACCORDING TO PROPERTY ASSESSOR RECORDS.
UH, BUT THIS PLAN, WHEN, WHEN IT CAME THROUGH, HAD THREE ADDITIONAL BUILDINGS AND IT WAS, UH, APPROVED BY, BY STAFF.
ONE OF THE BUILDINGS HAS BEEN COMPLETED.
THE THE ONE TO THE NORTH, THE ONE TO THE, THE BOTTOM RIGHT IS UNDER CONSTRUCTION AND JUST ABOUT COMPLETED NOW.
AND THE THE THIRD BUILDING, THE ONE ON THE LEFT BOTTOM LEFT HAS NOT BEEN BUILT YET.
UM, WE WERE REVIEWING A PLAN FOR A NEW, ANOTHER BUILDING OUT HERE, UH, COMPLETELY SEPARATE, UM, PROPERTY OWNER.
AND DURING THAT PROCESS, WE STARTED DOING MATH AND FIGURED OUT THAT THE, UH, BUILDINGS WERE LARGER.
THAT, THAT YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN IN THE, THESE THREE BUILDINGS WERE MUCH LARGER THAN WHAT WAS ORIGINALLY PLANNED.
AND THAT THERE WEREN'T ACTUALLY THAT MANY PARKING SPACES ON THE SITE.
THE, THE SITE DATA ON THIS PLAN SHOWS 87 PARKING SPACES, UM, EXISTING.
AND THAT'S NOT ACTUALLY WHAT'S OUT THERE.
THERE ARE ONLY 79 PARKING SPACES OUT THERE.
IT ALSO HAD A, A LARGE BUILDING SQUARE FOOTAGE THAT APPEARED TO SAY THAT IT MET THE MINIMUM PARKING REQUIREMENTS, BUT IT WASN'T REALLY CLEAR THAT TOTAL BUILDING SQUARE FOOTAGE, WHAT THAT APPLIED TO WAS THAT JUST THE NEW BUILDINGS, WAS THAT ALL THE EXISTING BUILDINGS.
SO STAFF DID APPROVE THIS PLAN.
UM, BUT WE DIDN'T KNOW THAT THAT SQUARE FOOTAGE DIDN'T INCLUDE SOME OF THE BUILDINGS THAT HADN'T BEEN BUILT YET.
AND ALSO, WE ASSUMED THAT THE INFORMATION WAS CORRECT WITH THE AMOUNT OF PARKING SPACES THAT WERE, WERE ON THE SITE.
SO THIS PLAN WAS APPROVED, BUT IT, IT HAD ERRORS.
AND SO THAT WAS, THAT WAS A, A, A PROBLEM.
SO THE BUILDINGS WERE LARGER THAN EXPECTED, AND SOME OF THE DATA WAS, WAS FACTUALLY INCORRECT OR NOT FULLY EXPLAINED.
THEN ANOTHER PLAN CAME IN, UH, FOR A BUILDING, UM, AT THE, ON LOTS NINE AND 10.
THAT'S THE ONE WHERE WE, UM, STARTED CHECKING THE MATH ON THE PARKING.
'CAUSE SOMETHING JUST DIDN'T, DIDN'T SEEM RIGHT.
AND WE REALIZED THAT THE, UH, THE MINIMUM PARKING REQUIREMENT OF ONE PER 300 SQUARE FEET, IF THIS NEW BUILDING ON LOTS NINE AND 10, UM, WAS TO BE CONSTRUCTED.
AND THEN THE, UH, THE THIRD BUILDING FROM THE ONE I JUST SHOWED YOU ON THE PREVIOUS SLIDE, IF ALL THOSE ARE BUILT IT'S WAY, IT DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH PARKING.
THEY HAVE MORE BUILDINGS THAN THEY ACTUALLY HAVE, HAVE PARKING.
AND THAT'S NOT WHAT WAS ENVISIONED FOR THIS COMPLEX.
THEY ALREADY BUILT THE PARKING BACK IN 2000.
SO THERE WAS A FI FINITE NUMBER THAT THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE EXCEEDED FOR BUILDING SQUARE FOOTAGE.
UH, BUT SOMEHOW BETWEEN 2020 23, IT GOT MUDDLED AND THE LARGER SQUARE FOOTAGE WAS ALLOWED FOR, UH, THREE OF THE BUILDINGS.
AND THAT'S PART OF WHAT WE'RE TRYING TO CONSIDER HERE TONIGHT.
SO THE BUILDINGS IN BLUE, HIGHLIGHTED IN BLUE ARE THE ONES THAT HAVE NOT BEEN BUILT YET.
SO THE CONCERN IS IF THEY DON'T GET THIS VARIANCE, THEN THEY'RE NOT ABLE TO DEVELOP ON THESE LOTS.
AND AS I WAS SPEAKING AT THE BE VERY BEGINNING UNDER THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THE BZA AND WHY WE EVEN HAVE A VARIANCE PROCESS IS WE'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO DO ANYTHING WITH ZONING THAT MAKES LAND UNUSABLE.
AND SO THEY'VE, THEY FOUND THEMSELVES IN A PLACE WHERE THE, THE OFFICES ARE OVERBUILT.
THERE'S NOT ENOUGH PARKING TO MEET THE CODE, AND THESE LOTS WILL BE UNDEVELOPABLE IF THEY DON'T GET RELIEF OF SOME KIND.
SO A VARIANCE IS THAT THAT OPTION.
AND THAT'S PART OF PART OF WHY WE'RE HERE TODAY.
TALK, TALKING ABOUT A VARIANCE, UM, THAT, UH, SO THAT IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGITIMATE OPTION.
BUT THEY MIGHT HAVE SOME OTHER OPTIONS TOO IF THEY'RE, IF THE VARIANCE ISN'T GRANTED.
SO SOME OF THOSE OPTIONS MIGHT INCLUDE, UM, PROVIDING NON ADDITIONAL ONSITE PARKING SPACES AND GETTING A VARIANCE TO ALLOW ON ONSITE OFF ON STREET PARKING TO COUNT.
TYPICALLY, ON STREET PARKING DOESN'T COUNT TOWARDS THE MINIMUM REQUIREMENT.
IT'S CALLED THE OFF STREET PARKING REQUIREMENT.
THAT'S, THAT'S TECHNICAL REQUIREMENT OR TECHNICAL NAME.
UM, SO THEY WOULD NEED TO SOME KIND OF VARIANCE TO BE ABLE TO COUNT ON STREET.
BUT IF THEY BUILT NINE MORE PARKING SPACES, THAT WOULD, THOSE TWO TOGETHER COULD HELP ADDRESS THE CONCERN.
AND THESE OTHER TWO BUILDINGS, THE BUILDINGS IN BLUE COULD BE BUILT.
UH, THE PROBLEM WITH THAT IS THERE'S NOT ROOM TO ADD NINE MORE SPACES.
THE WAY THIS COMPLEX IS BUILT, UH, THE FOUR BUILDINGS ARE ALREADY IN PLACE.
THE PARKING FIELD'S ALREADY THERE.
THERE'S NOT REALLY ROOM TO ADD MORE PARKING AND GET A PROPER DRY VI.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S NOT AN OPTION.
THERE, THERE ARE PHYSICAL FEATURES TO THIS SITE NOW THAT MISS, UH, PARTICULARLY THE OWNER.
[00:15:01]
UM, UH, IT, IT COULD BE ARGUED THAT THE BUILDER, THE BUILDER OF THE THREE LOTS CREATED THIS SITUATION BY HAVING HIS BUILDINGS BE LARGER THAN, THAN NORMAL.UM, BUT HE MAY HAVE NOT KNOWN BECAUSE OF SOME OF THE INFORMATION ON THE TABLE THAT HE WAS CREATING THIS SITUATION.
AND DEFINITELY, UM, CHIP JOHNSON, WHO WANTS TO BUILD ON LOTS NINE AND 10, HE DIDN'T CREATE THIS SITUATION.
HE DIDN'T BUILD THE LARGER THREE BUILDINGS.
HE FINDS HIMSELF IN A POSITION WHERE HE NEEDS THE VARIANCE SO HE CAN BUILD HIS BUILDING THE SIXTH BUILDING, AND HE DIDN'T CREATE THE SITUATION.
SO THE OWNERS OF ANOTHER OPTION IS THE OWNERS OF LOTS NINE AND 10 AND 15 AND 16 COULD JUST NOT BUILD ON THEM.
BUT AGAIN, THAT'S NOT REALLY AN, AN OPTION FOR THEM.
THEY, THEY BOTH HAVE BOUGHT THESE LOTS FOR, FOR DIFFERENT PURPOSES.
UH, MR. SAMBORA IS, IS LEASING THESE BUILDINGS OUT, UM, ON, ON THESE ON LOTS 15 AND 16, BUT LOTS, NINE IN 10.
MR. JOHNSON WANTS TO PUT HIS ENGINEERING BUSINESS ON THIS BUIL ON THIS LOT.
SO THEY, THEY HAVE PLANS FOR THAT.
THEY DON'T WANT IT TO JUST BE PARK LAND OR OPEN SPACE THAT WOULDN'T BE USED.
UM, THE UNBUILT BUILDING ON BUILDINGS ON LOTS 15 AND 16 COULD BE REDUCED IN SIZE.
SO IF THEY REDUCE IT DOWN TO 3000 SQUARE FEET AND DO, AND GET A VARIANCE THAT ALLOW FOR SIX ON STREET PARKING SPACES, THEN ALL SIX COULD BE BUILT.
UM, BUT WE'VE GOT A PROBLEM WITH THAT.
WE'VE ALREADY APPROVED, THE TOWN HAS APPROVED A PLAN FOR A BUILDING THAT'S LARGER THAN 3000 SQUARE FEET.
SO IT'S A KIND OF A TRICKY SITUATION IN THAT, UM, HE ALREADY HAD, THE TOWN HAS ALREADY TOLD HIM HE COULD BUILD THAT BUILDING.
SO WE, WE ARE, WE HAVE CONCERNS WITH ASKING HIM TO REDUCE THE SIZE OF THAT BUILDING, THE PD, THERE'S A PD AMENDMENT PROCESS, THEY COULD ANOTHER, IF THE ANSWER IS NO TO THE VARIANCE, THEY COULD ALWAYS ASK THE MAYOR AND BOARD TO AMEND THE STEEPLE CHASE PD AND ESSENTIALLY ASK FOR THE SAME PARKING FORMULA.
AND WHY IT'S DIFFERENT IS WITH THE, WITH THE VARIANCE, AS YOU'RE WELL AWARE, THERE'S LIKE NINE QUESTIONS, A TEST THAT WE HAVE TO APPLY TO MAKE SURE THAT THEY'RE, UM, THAT IT'S NOT IN AN EASEMENT.
THAT THERE'S SOMETHING STRANGE ABOUT THE LOT, THAT IT'S NOT FINANCIAL RETURNS ONLY THAT WE'RE, WE'RE TAKING INTO CONSIDERATION.
SO A WHOLE, THERE'S A WHOLE TEST THAT APPLIES TO A VARIANCE THAT DOESN'T APPLY, EXCUSE ME, TO A PLAN DEVELOPMENT.
SO A PLAN DEVELOPMENT IS MORE DISCRETIONARY AND, BUT THAT, THAT COULD BE AN OPTION IF THE ANSWER IS NO TODAY.
AND THE FINAL OPTION IS TO TRY TO AMEND THE ZONING ORDINANCE FOR THE TOWN TO CHANGE HOW WE REGULATE OFFICE BUILDINGS.
UM, BUT THAT'S, THAT'S PROBABLY NOT THE BEST FIT FOR THIS SITUATION.
'CAUSE THAT WOULD APPLY TO EVERY OFFICE BUILDING IN TOWN.
AND WE, WE WOULD DISCOURAGE THAT AS A, A PATH IN THIS, THIS SITUATION TO TRY TO PROVIDE RELIEF.
SO THEY CAME TO YOU, UH, BECAUSE IT'S THE, IT'S THE QUICKEST OPTION TO GET AN ANSWER.
IT'S A LESS EXPENSIVE OPTION TO GET AN ANSWER.
AND THERE ARE PHYSICAL ISSUES WITH THE PROPERTIES.
IF THERE WEREN'T ANY PHYSICAL CONSTRAINTS, WE WOULD'VE DISCOURAGED THEM AND JUST TOLD 'EM TO ADD MORE PARKING.
EXCUSE ME, BACK ON THE, THE NUMBERS.
THERE ARE, AS I MENTIONED BEFORE, 79 ON OFF STREET PARKING SPACES ON, ON THIS CAMPUS RIGHT NOW.
AND BASED ON ONE SPACE FOR 300 SQUARE FEET, 94 PARKING SPACES WOULD BE NEEDED.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S THE REAL REAL DIFFERENCE BASED ON THE, THE REQUESTED SQUARE FOOTAGE, THE 28 0 9 4, AND WHERE 28 0 9 4 COMES FROM IS, COMES FROM A COUPLE OF DIFFERENT PLACES.
THAT'S, THAT'S WHAT THE APPLICANT'S ASKING FOR IN THEIR COVER LETTER.
THAT'S COMING ALSO FROM APPROVED PLANS THAT WE HAVE IN THE DEVELOPMENT DEPARTMENT AND MAYBE SOME ASSESSOR RECORDS.
UM, BUT THIS, THE TOWN DOESN'T KNOW EXACTLY THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF ALL THESE BUILDINGS.
WE'RE RELYING ON THE DESIGN PROFESSIONALS THAT PREPARE THESE PLANS THAT ARE LICENSED BY THE STATE OF TENNESSEE, THAT THESE PLANS ARE ACCURATE AND THEY, AND THAT THEY HAVE THE AUTHORITATIVE INFORMATION.
AND SO THERE MAY, THERE MAY BE QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT IS THE RIGHT SQUARE FOOTAGE, BUT THE DESIGN PROFESSIONAL, WHEN THEY SEAL THAT PLAN, THEY'RE SAYING THAT THIS IS ACCURATE.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S PART OF HOW, THAT'S HOW THE, THE DESIGN PROCESS WORKS.
UM, WE DID ASK OUR TOWN TRAFFIC ENGINEER ABOUT THE VARIANCE AND, AND HOW THIS MIGHT IMPACT.
IS THIS A GOOD IDEA OR NOT? CHANGING THE FORMULA, NOT ONLY DOES OUR TRAFFIC ENGINEER LOOK AT TRAFFIC, THEY ALSO LOOK AT PARKING DEMANDS.
SO KIND OF ALL THINGS, UH, TRANSPORTATION.
THE, UH, INSTITUTE OF TRAFFIC ENGINEERS SAID FOR AN OFFICE COMPLEX, IN A SUBURBAN SITUATION LIKE THIS, A GENERAL OFFICE BUILDING OF THIS SIZE WOULD NEED ABOUT 96 PARKING SPACES AT THE 85TH PERCENTILE.
[00:20:01]
SO AT, AT PEAK TIME, THEY'RE GONNA NEED ABOUT 96 PARKING SPACES.SO THAT MEANS THE TOWN'S PARKING FORMULA OF ONE SPACE PER 300 SQUARE FEET IS JUST ABOUT SPOT ON.
SO THAT, THAT CREATES A CONCERN.
SO THEY NEED AROUND HOW MANY PARKING SPACES ARE ACTUALLY REQUIRED BY THE TOWN'S, UM, UM, ZONING ORDINANCE.
SO THAT CREATES A CONCERN THAT THEY NEED.
THEY CAN'T JUST HAVE THE 79 PARKING SPACES, IT'S NOT GONNA BE ENOUGH.
UH, BUT WHAT IS GOOD IN THIS SITUATION IS THEY DO HAVE ON STREET PARKING, AND THAT CAN BE PROVIDED AS AN OVERFLOW IN, IN THIS SITUATION.
AND ON STREET PARKING, UM, IS ALLOWED IN THIS SITUATION.
SO STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THIS VARIANCE.
UM, PARTLY BECAUSE OF THE PHYSICAL CONSTRAINTS THAT THEY ARE HERE IN EXISTING.
THEY, THEY HAVE PROBLEMS WITH THE DEVELOPABILITY OF THEIR LOTS, BUT ALSO THAT THERE IS ON-STREET PARKING THAT CAN PROVIDE OVERFLOW DURING, DURING THE PEAK TIMES, UH, THE OWNER WAS PLANNING TO ADD.
UM, AND SO THE BLUE BUILDINGS ARE THE ONES THAT ARE GONNA BE BUILT.
UM, THE, THE FOURTH AND FIFTH, UH, THE FIFTH AND THE SIXTH BUILDINGS, YOU SEE THE 79 EXISTING PARKING SPACES IS, THERE WAS A PLAN GIVEN TO US BY THE OWNER OF THE THREE BUILDINGS THAT ARE UNDER, UNDER CONSTRUCTION, WHERE HE IS PLANNING TO DESIGNATE SIX ON STREET PARKING SPACES TO HELP ADDRESS HIS NEEDS.
ACTUALLY, PARKING IS LEGAL ON PUBLIC STREETS, EXCEPT WHERE THE TAM CODE SAYS IT IS NOT ALLOWED.
THERE ARE MANY CASES WHERE YOU CAN'T PARK.
AND, AND MOST OF US ARE, WHEN WE GET OUR DRIVER'S LICENSE AND WE GO THROUGH THE TEST, WE KNOW NOT TO PARK IN FRONT OF A FIRE HYDRANT.
UM, YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO PARK IN FRONT OF SOMEBODY'S DRIVEWAY.
YOU'RE NOT SUPPOSED TO PARK RIGHT IN A STREET INTERSECTION.
AND SO THERE AS MANY AS 15 PARKING SPACES THAT ARE POSSIBLE IN, ALONG IN THAT GENERAL AREA.
IF IT'S AT PEAK TIME AND THEY HIT THAT 85TH PERCENTILE AND THEY NEED THE EXTRA PARKING AS PART OF THIS APPLICATION, THE, THE, UH, OFFICE CONDO ASSOCIATION LOOKED AT THEIR NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES AND THEY TRIED TO FIGURE OUT, BASED ON THE EXISTING PARKING AND BASED ON THEIR, THEIR OWN PERCEIVED PARKING DEMAND, HOW MANY SPACES DO THEY REALLY NEED? AND THEY HAVE, THEY HAVE TOLD THE TOWN THEY REALLY ONLY NEED 13 SPACES PER, PER OFFICE BUILDING.
AND SO THAT ADDS UP TO ABOUT 78 PARKING SPACES.
THAT MEANS THAT THEY BELIEVE THAT THEY CAN PARK AND MEET ALL OF THEIR NEEDS ON, ON SITE.
SO THEY'RE WILLING TO, IN THEIR OWN PRIVATE RESTRICTIONS.
AND THEY 13 SPACES FOR, FOR EACH BUILDING.
AND THEY FEEL THAT THAT IS, IS SUFFICIENT.
AND THAT MAY BE FINE FOR THEM ON THE PRIVATE SIDE, BUT AGAIN, TO ADDRESS THE CONCERNS OF THE TOWN TRANSPORTATION ENGINEER, THE ON THE ON-STREET PARKING WOULD PROVIDE, UH, PEAK TIME OVERFLOW IF, IF THERE WAS, WAS A NEED.
I MENTIONED BEFORE WHAT THE TOWN CODE SAID ABOUT ON STREET PARKING BEING ALLOWED.
AND THESE ARE THE SPECIFIC REGULATIONS ABOUT WHERE IT IS AND ISN'T ALLOWED.
UM, IN THIS PARTICULAR SITUATION.
UM, GRAND STEEPLE IS 40 FEET WIDE, WHICH IS WIDER THAN YOUR TYPICAL STREET.
YOUR TYPICAL RESIDENTIAL STREET.
AND COLLIERVILLE IS ABOUT 30 FEET WIDE.
SO IT'S 40 FEET WIDE IN THIS SITUATION.
ON STREET PARKING IS SEVEN FEET WIDE, SO THAT'S 14, WHICH LEAVES YOU 26 FEET, UH, FOR TWO-WAY TRAFFIC.
AND THAT'S, THAT'S 13 FEET FOR EACH LANE.
AND THE MINIMUM LANE FOR AN INTERSTATE, INCIDENTALLY, IS 1212 FEET.
SO 13 FEET IS AMPLE TO BE ABLE TO PROVIDE TWO-WAY TRAFFIC, EVEN IF PEOPLE WERE PARKED ON EACH SIDE, IF THEY DID MEET THAT 85TH PERCENTILE.
SO AGAIN, STAFF IS RECOMMENDING APPROVAL OF THE VARIANCE FOR THE REASONS WE'VE DESCRIBED.
WE DO BELIEVE THAT THEY MEET THE STANDARDS FOR THE VARIANCE THAT THAT, UH, THAT WE HAVE.
AND IT CAN, PARTICULARLY WITH THE CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL THAT THEY CAN, WE CAN, WE CAN HELP MAKE SURE THAT ANY ISSUES ARE, ARE MITIGATED.
SO SOME OF THE NEXT STEPS, THE ON STREET PARKING, UM, THEY DID PROVIDE THAT PLAN.
OUR COUNTY ENGINEER DIDN'T THINK THAT ON STREET THAT STRIPING WAS NEEDED, BUT IT MIGHT BE HELPFUL TO INSTALL SIGNAGE THAT SAYS DON'T PARK BETWEEN HERE AND THE CORNER AT POPLAR AVENUE.
SO WE'LL ASK THAT THEY INSTALL A SIGN TO HELP MAKE SURE THAT THERE AREN'T ANY ISSUES WITH THAT.
IF THERE ARE ANY OTHER CONDITIONS THAT BZA ADDS, THOSE WILL NEED TO BE ADDRESSED TOO BEFORE BUILDING PERMITS ARE ISSUED.
AND SOME OF THOSE CONDITIONS INCLUDE MAKING SURE WE HAVE A GOOD TAKE DOWN CHART, LIKE A, LIKE A DATA CHART THAT SHOWS ALL THE BUILDING SQUARE FOOTAGES
[00:25:01]
THAT IS PREPARED BY A REGISTERED PROFESSIONAL IN THE STATE OF TENNESSEE.SO WE KNOW IT'S ACCURATE AND IT SHOWS THE MINIMUM PARKING REQUIREMENT, WHETHER YOU GRANT A VARIANCE OR NOT.
AND THEN ONCE WE SEE THAT THERE'S ADEQUATE PARKING, WE WILL ISSUE THE REMAINING BUILDING PERMITS, THE PROPO, THE PROPOSED MOTION'S ON YOUR SCREEN.
I'M AVAILABLE TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS.
AND I DO WANT TO REMIND Y'ALL, Y'ALL GOT IN AN EMAIL EARLIER AND AT YOUR DESK, THERE WAS ONE, UM, LETTER FROM A NEIGHBOR, A CONCERNED, UM, A NEIGHBOR, AND I WANTED TO PUT THAT INTO THE RECORD AS WELL.
MY FIRST QUESTION IS, YOU STATED THAT IN THE ORIGINAL PLAN THERE WAS APPROVED 86 PARKING SPOTS, BUT IT WENT DOWN TO 79.
WHERE IS THAT MISS? WHERE IT WE LOST EIGHT PARKING SPOTS? THAT'S A GOOD QUESTION.
I DON'T KNOW WHY WHERE, WHERE THESE NUMBERS CAME FROM, THE 87 AND THE 84 CAME FROM.
IT MAY BE A, A PREVIOUS DRAWING, MAYBE THE, UM, BUT THAT'S NOT ACTUALLY WHAT, WHAT GOT BUILT IN THE FIELD, BUT THAT IT'S, IT'S NOT CLEAR WHERE THAT NUMBER CAME FROM.
THE SECOND QUESTION IS, IN THE ORIGINAL PLAN, LOTS 15 AND 16 WAS APPROVED, WAS PLANNED FOR A 4,000 SQUARE FOOT A BUILDING.
NOW THEY'RE PROPOSING A 55, ALMOST 1500 SQUARE FEET LARGER THAN THE ORIGINAL PLANS.
HOW WOULD THAT AFFECT THE PARKING NEEDED IF IT WENT BACK TO WHAT THE ORIGINAL PLANS WERE? UM, STILL WOULD BE SHORT.
I THINK IT NEEDED TO GO DOWN TO THREE PER, PER THE MATH THAT I DID.
SO IT GETS CLOSER, UH, TO GO DOWN TO, TO 4,000, BUT IT DOESN'T COMPLETELY SATISFY THE NEED.
THEY STILL WOULD NEED THE VARIANCE.
UM, BUT THE PEAK, THE PEAK WOULD BE ACCOMMODATED WITH THE ON STREET PARKING IF THEY GOT THE VARIANCE.
SO THE PLANS WERE ORIGINALLY 4,000 SQUARE FEET FOR THAT HOUSE.
AND YOU SAID THAT THE, THE TOWN IS ALREADY APPROVED OF BUILDING THERE.
DID THEY APPROVE IT FOR 55 EVEN THOUGH THE ORIGINAL PLAN WAS 4,000 55 22 IS HOW IT WAS APPROVED AND THE ASSUMPTION BECAUSE OF THE DATA, IT LOOKED LIKE IT DIDN'T CREATE A PARKING ISSUE AND THAT'S WHY THE TOWN APPROVED IT HAD HAD IT NOT AT THE PARKING, BUT ORIGINAL 4,000 INSTEAD OF 55.
SAY THAT QUESTION AGAIN? THE ORIGINAL PLAN THAT YOU SHOWED US BACK FROM 98 19 98 YEAH.
SHOWED THAT IT WAS A 4,000 CORRECT.
AND THE LARGER ONE WAS APPROVED BECAUSE IT, IT APPEARED ON PAPER THAT IT, EVEN THOUGH IT WAS LARGER, THAT IT DIDN'T CREATE AN ADVERSE IMPACT AS FAR AS PARKING.
UM,
I'M STRUGGLING WITH THE FACT THAT EACH ONE OF THESE BUILDINGS IS 1500 SQUARE FEET MORE THAN IT SHOULD BE.
UM, THAT'S A, IN MY OPINION, A BIG MESS.
UM, BUT TRYING TO BE PRACTICAL, LOOKING AT SOME OF THIS, THIS, TELL ME A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT THIS 85% RULE, UH, AND HOW THAT IMPACTS PARKING.
THESE ARE SOME STATS, UH, THAT WAS PROVIDED IN YOUR PACKET FROM THE, THE TOWN'S TRAFFIC, UH, ENGINEER.
AND THEY, UM, WE'RE LOOKING AT THE ONE AT THE VERY, VERY BOTTOM, THE GENERAL OFFICE BUILDING SUBURBAN OCCUPIED FOR A BUILDING OF THIS KIND, THE AVERAGE RATE, THE AVERAGE PARKING DEMAND WOULD BE ABOUT 71 PARKING SPACES.
UH, BUT WHEN YOU LOOK AT PEAK TIMES WHEN YOU, WHEN YOU HIT THE 85TH PERCENTILE, UM, 96 PARKING SPACES WOULD BE NEEDED, UH, FOR, FOR BUSINESSES THAT PARTICULARLY HAVE, HAVE HIGH DEMAND DURING, UH, PEAK, PEAK HOURS OF THE DAY.
SO THAT'S, THAT'S WHY, UH, SHE WAS SAYING TO BE ON THE SAFE SIDE, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE, OR WE, WE SHOULD UPHOLD THE, THE FORMULA AND TRY TO MAKE SURE THE INTENT OF THE ONE PER 300 IS MET, EVEN IF IT'S NOT ALL MET ON SITE.
SO IN THESE TYPES OF BUSINESSES, WHAT TIMES OF THE DAY WOULD THEY BE IN THAT 85TH PERCENTILE RATE OR ABOVE? OH, I, I DIDN'T HAVE THE FULL INFORMATION FROM THE, THE TOWN ENGINEER TO SEE EXACTLY WHAT THE, IT WAS WAS LOOKING AT THERE.
UM, SO I, I DON'T HAVE THAT INFORMATION IF THAT, THAT'S CRITICAL TO YOU.
I COULD GET THAT INFORMATION TO YOU, BUT IT WOULD HAVE TO BE, UM, OUT OUTSIDE THE MEETING.
AND, AND, AND PERHAPS THE APPLICANTS COULD TALK ABOUT THEIR OWN SPECIFIC NEEDS AND PEAK TIMES.
WELL, AND THAT'S WHERE I ALSO WANT TO ASK ABOUT THIS MAGICAL NUMBER OF 13 THAT EQUALS EXACTLY THE NUMBER OF PARKING SPOTS THAT THEY HAVE.
UM, IS THAT BASED ON JUST THE EMPLOYEES WORKING IN THAT BUILDING? IS THAT BASED ON EMPLOYEES WORKING IN THAT BUILDING IN CONJUNCTION WITH THE AMOUNT OF WALK-IN TRAFFIC THAT THEY MAY GET
[00:30:01]
AT ANY GIVEN TIME OF SOME OF THESE BUSINESSES? THE TYPE OF BUSINESS WHERE THEY WON'T BE ENTERTAINING, WALK-IN TRAFFIC, CUSTOMERS, CLIENTS, UM, 'CAUSE I THINK THAT ONCE AGAIN, THAT IMPACTS PARKING AND THERE COVER LETTER EXHIBIT THREE, THEY DO TALK ABOUT THE DIFFERENT USES.SOME ARE DON'T REALLY HAVE CUSTOMERS THAT COME IN AND SOME, SOME DO.
BUT IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE REFLECTIVE OF THEIR NEEDS.
SO NOW LET ME ASK SOME OF MY PRACTICAL QUESTIONS 'CAUSE WE CAN'T MAGICALLY MAKE THESE BUILDINGS SMALLER AT THIS POINT.
UM, CAN YOU GO TO THE SLIDE, UM, THAT I THINK IT WAS LIKE THE THIRD TO LAST SLIDE THAT WAS KIND OF A ZOOMED OUT.
SO JUST LOOKING AT THIS, UM, BELOW BUILDING 1112, SO SOUTH OF 1112 AND WEST OF 1314, THERE'S LIKE THIS GREEN SPACE AREA THAT'S BLOCKED BY TREES FROM POPLAR AVENUE.
UH, I CAN'T REALLY TELL WHAT'S FURTHER WEST OF IT.
UM, ALSO LOOKING AT BETWEEN BUILDING 15, 16 AND 1314, IS THERE A POSSIBILITY TO PUT EMPLOYEE PARKING BEHIND THOSE BUILDINGS TO ALLEVIATE AND MAYBE GET AWAY FROM PARKING DESIGNATED ON THE STREET TREES ARE GONNA BLOCK THE PARKING FROM POPLAR.
JUST KIND OF LOOKING AT IT, YOU COULD PROBABLY TAKE CARE OF THOSE NINE PARKING SPOTS IF YOU PUT AN EMPLOYEE PARKING AREA RIGHT IN THAT AREA.
AND I THINK THAT WOULD MAKE EVERYONE HAPPY.
YOU COULD USE THIS AS AN EXAMPLE.
SO KINDA LIKE A, I'M NOT, I'M GONNA ASK, I WON'T, I WON'T TRY TO DRAW EXACTLY, BUT IF YOU LIKE, IMAGINE THIS AS A PARK PARKING FIELD MM-HMM
OR EVEN JUST ONE SIDED, TRYING TO GET THAT IN BETWEEN THOSE BUILDINGS AND THE TREES IS GONNA BE TRICKY.
SO IT'S, IT MAY, IT MAY ENCROACH TO LIKE A, WE HAVE A 40 FOOT BUFFER ALONG SO MM-HMM
UM, THAT MAY VIOLATE SOME OF THE, OF OUR BUFFERING STANDARDS.
IT'S PROBABLY GONNA PUT A DRIVEWAY REALLY CLOSE TO THIS INTERSECTION.
AND THAT, THAT IS A CONCERN OF JUST IN GENERAL OF, OF HAVING A, I MEAN, YOU'RE ALMOST A DRIVEWAY THAT CLOSE.
BUT YOU'RE ALMOST GONNA HAVE PARKING RIGHT THERE TOO.
YOU MIGHT HAVE SOME ON STREETE PARKING.
I MEAN, TO ME THAT WOULD BE A BIGGER OBSTACLE THAN A DRIVEWAY.
BUT YOU WILL HAVE SOMEBODY LIKE COMING OUT, LIKE YEAH, TRYING, TRYING TO MAKE A LEFT AND THEN SOMEBODY TURN IT RIGHT AT THE SAME TIME.
I'M JUST, OR I'M JUST, COULD THERE BE A ROAD BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDINGS? YEAH.
IN BETWEEN 11 AND 12 AND NINE AND 10, UH, THAT'S NOT BUILT.
WELL, I WAS TALKING ABOUT IS IT, IT'S 1516 AND THE ONE THAT'S OH YEAH.
SO SEE WHERE I'M TALKING ABOUT.
SO IN BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDINGS ON THE WEST, THE ONE FURTHER SOUTH AND THEN THE ONE THAT'S NOT BUILT YET, MAYBE HAVE A DRIVEWAY HERE OR ONE RIGHT.
SO ALLEY WAY TO GO TO PARKING FOR YOU END UP TAKING A COUPLE OUT.
THE, THE DIMENSIONS ARE PRETTY TIGHT THROUGH THERE, SO I'M NOT SAYING IT'S NOT POSSIBLE, BUT IT, IT, IT WOULD BE A CHALLENGE, UH, TO GET THAT IN THERE AND IF THAT'S SOMETHING YOU WANT THEM TO, UH, AND I'LL, I'LL THROW THIS OUT.
IF YOU WANT THEM TO EXPLORE THAT, THEN WE, YOU COULD ALWAYS DELAY IT AND THEN COME BACK AT AND THEY COULD STUDY, STUDY THAT OR TRY TO EXHAUST IT.
OR EVEN IF YOU ARE SKEPTICAL OF THE NUMBERS AND YOU WANT THEM TO SHOW MORE INFORMATION THAN YOU, IF YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TONIGHT, UH, DEFERRAL'S ALWAYS AN OPTION.
AND SO, UH, MY FINAL QUESTION FOR NOW AT LEAST IS LOOKING AT IF WE ARE GONNA, IF OUR ONLY OPTION AT THE END OF THE DAY IS ON STREET PARKING, I THINK IT'S IMPORTANT TO STRIPE THE ROAD TO ALLOW AND HAVE THE DESIGNATED PARKING AREA.
NOT THAT YOU NECESSARILY HAVE TO PUT IN LIKE LINE PARALLEL PARKING SPOTS, BUT JUST WHERE THE DOUBLE YELLOW LINE ARE GONNA BE, WHERE THE WHITE LINES ON THE EDGE ARE GONNA BE.
I THINK THAT'S IMPORTANT BECAUSE
[00:35:01]
IF YOU JUST HAVE A BIG SHOULDER, UM, THAT'S NOT REALLY MARKED OFF.PEOPLE MAY THINK IT'S A BIKE LANE, PEOPLE MAY SEE THAT AS PART OF THE DRIVING LANE, AND THEN ALL OF A SUDDEN IF YOU HAVE A CAR PARKED THERE THAT PEOPLE AREN'T USED TO SEEING, I THINK THAT'S A DANGER.
UM, I THINK ANY PARKING ALONG THIS ROAD IS POTENTIALLY DANGEROUS.
AND THEN, YOU KNOW, MY KIDS HAVE GONE TO DIFFERENT ELEMENTARY SCHOOLS IN THIS AREA AND I LOOK THAT WHEN IT'S DROP OFF AND PICK UP TIME, PEOPLE INVENT THEIR OWN PARKING SPOTS.
SO MY CONCERN WOULD ALSO BE THESE HOUSES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE ROAD HAVING RANDOM CARS, YOU KNOW, PARKING IN THE AREA AND MAYBE THE US MAIL CAN'T GET TO 'EM.
SO I THINK IF WE DON'T DO SOMETHING TO DESIGNATE WHERE THAT STREET PARKING'S GONNA BE, I THINK WE'RE GONNA HAVE FUTURE ISSUES FROM THE RESIDENTIAL PLACES ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE STREET.
CAN I ASK ONE MORE QUESTION ALONG THOSE LINES? IS THERE A PRECEDENT OF ALLOWING STREET PARKING IN FRONT OF A PRIMARY RESIDENCE FOR BUSINESSES? BECAUSE YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT PUTTING EIGHT PARKING SPOTS, STREET PARKING SPOTS IN FRONT OF A RESIDENTIAL HOUSE THAT'S COUNTING FOR A BUSINESS.
IS THERE ANY PRECEDENT OF THAT EVER HAPPENING? YES.
UM, THERE ARE A LOT OF AREAS, PARTICULARLY NOW NEAR THE TOWN SQUARE WHERE YOU HAVE, UH, BUSINESSES AND RESIDENTIAL AREAS EVEN ON THE SAME BLOCK, BUT THEY'RE COUNTED AS THE PARKING, AS THE RESIDENCE'S FRONT YARD FRONT CURB.
I WOULDN'T WANT THAT IF IT WAS MY HOUSE.
SO, SO YEAH, PUBLIC, PUBLIC PARKING CAN BE ANYONE FOR ANY REASON.
I KNOW ANYONE CAN PARK IN FRONT OF MY HOUSE, BUT IT'S DIFFERENT WHEN YOU'RE SAYING A BUSINESS CAN ACTUALLY USE YOUR CURB MM-HMM
NO, I JUST, I I I WENT TO SOME SCHOOL MEETINGS WHERE IT WAS, UH, PART OF THE, THE TALK FROM THE PRINCIPAL WAS IF YOU'RE GONNA PARK IN FRONT OF THE HOUSES, YOU KNOW, THEY HAD TO REMIND PEOPLE.
YOU WOULD THINK IT'S COMMON SENSE NOT TO PARK IN FRONT OF PEOPLE'S DRIVEWAYS OR MAILBOXES.
BECAUSE PEOPLE WERE STILL DOING IT.
SO, UM, WITH JUST THOSE RESIDENTIAL SPOTS RIGHT THERE, I THINK THAT NEEDS TO BE SOMETHING TAKEN INTO CONSIDERATION.
SO, BECAUSE HOW MANY OF THOSE EIGHT PARKING SPOTS ARE IN FRONT OF A POST OFFICE BOX? YOU HAVE YOUR ON, YOU HAVE YOUR, YOUR MAILBOX ON THE STREET FOR THOSE HOUSES.
HOW MANY OF THOSE EIGHT THAT ARE ON THAT SIDE OF THE RESIDENCE? SURE.
I WE DIDN'T, WE DIDN'T ANALYZE IT TO THAT.
DO THOSE EVEN HAVE MAILBOXES OR ARE THEY REQUIRED TO HAVE A UH MM THEY MAY HAVE GOTTEN A WAIT ROOM ABLE TO CONSTRUCTION.
I'M WONDERING DO THEY, ARE THEY REQUIRED TO HAVE A, UM, DO THEY HAVE A, YOU KNOW WHAT I'M TRYING TO SAY?
YEAH, I THINK THEY HAVE A CLUSTER.
THEY DON'T, THEY I THINK I SEE A, A MAILBOX.
I KNOW THE GOOGLE STREET VIEW IS NOT YEAH.
EITHER ONE OF YOU TWO HAVE NO QUESTIONS.
UH, JAMIE, WERE THE BUILDING, UH, SIZE INCREASE, WERE WITHOUT ANY CONSIDERATION OF THE PARKING PROVISION? I MEAN, YOU, YOU START OFF AT ONE SIZE AND SURE.
ALL OF A SUDDEN YOU'RE IN A BIGGER NOT, IS THAT A PART OF THE PROCESS TO WE, WE DO CHECK THAT AND IT WASN'T INTENTIONAL.
UNINTENTIONALLY, UH, THESE BUILDINGS WERE APPROVED FOR A LARGER SQUARE FOOTAGE AND IT WAS BASED ON THE INFORMATION IN THE TABLE, BUT THE ABLE MAKES IT LOOK LIKE THE SITE IS COMPLIANT AND MEETS THE MINIMUM PARKING REQUIREMENTS.
BUT, BUT IT ACTUALLY DOESN'T, I GUESS.
SO IS IT FAIR TO SAY WE, AND I THINK YOU SAID THIS AND HELP ME UNDERSTAND FOR SURE, THIS WAS A HUGE OVERSIGHT IN THE WHOLE THING IN THE WHOLE PROCESS, DEVELOPER YES.
BOUGHT THIS PROPERTY WITH THE INTENTION TO BUILD A PROPERTY OF EXCISE.
WAS APPROVED AND NOW FINDING OUT WE HAVE AN ISSUE, CORRECT? THAT IS CORRECT.
WHEN THE PROPERTY ON 1516 WAS PURCHASED THOUGH THE PLAN ALREADY SHED 4,000.
THERE WAS THAT OLDER PLAN? YES.
IT WAS MORE OF A CONCEPTUAL APPROVAL.
THEY COULDN'T COME DOWN AND GET A BUILDING PERMIT FOR IT, BUT THEY DID SEE THAT, THAT IS PART OF THE RECORD.
'CAUSE THAT WOULD BE FIVE PARKING SPOTS RIGHT THERE.
SO THERE IS, THIS IS KNOWN AS A,
[00:40:01]
UH, THE OFFICE CENTER, YOU, YOU MENTIONED IT EARLIER, BUT EACH ONE OF THESE ARE INDIVIDUAL DEVELOPMENT OWNED PROPERTIES, RIGHT? THIS IS NOT AS A WHOLE, ALL ONE OWNER OF, OF THE WHOLE ALL OF THESE RIGHT'S SEPARATE? THAT'S CORRECT.THE, THE LOTS HAVE SEPARATE OWNERSHIP.
ALTHOUGH SOME, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE OF THAT.
RIGHT? SO ONE, ONE OWNER OWNS BOTH SIDES THEIR BUILDING.
BUT SOME, SOME PROPERTY OWNERS OWN MULTIPLE LOTS WITHIN MR. SAMBORA OWNS SIX LOTS WITHIN THIS COMPLEX.
I JUST, I, I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE BECAUSE THERE WAS THAT ORIGINAL PLAN, BUT THEN IT WAS LIKE, WHEN A DEVELOPER COMES IN TO BUY, THEY'RE ONLY, DOESN'T MATTER AT THE END OF THE DAY, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THAT OLD PLAN SAYS.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? OKAY.
SO NOW WE'RE GONNA ASK, UM, A REPRESENTATIVE, UH, FROM THE DEVELOPMENT, UH, TO COME UP.
PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS AND ANYTHING YOU WANT TO DISCUSS AND THEN IF WE HAVE QUESTIONS, WE WILL ASK QUESTIONS.
UM, MY NAME IS WES ASHWORTH, ASHWORTH, ENGINEERING 1 0 8 1 5 COLLIERVILLE ROAD HERE IN COLLIERVILLE.
UH, I THINK DAM JAMIE DID A GREAT JOB OF STATING WHAT HAS HAPPENED AND WHERE WE ARE NOW.
UH, I WILL, I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS THE PARKING BEHIND BUILDINGS.
THAT WAS WHEN THE CLIENTS BROUGHT THIS TO MY ATTENTION AND ASKED ME TO HELP THEM WITH THE PARKING SITUATION.
THE FIRST THING I DID WAS LOOK FOR ALTERNATE WAYS TO GET PARKING ON OUR SITE.
AND EVEN THOUGH YOU DO HAVE THE BACKYARD SAYS, JAMIE, COULD YOU GO TO THE 2023 SITE PLAN? OKAY.
SO I CAN'T POINT 'CAUSE Y'ALL CAN'T SEE, BUT IF YOU LOOK AT THE SOUTHERN BUILDINGS, THERE APPEARS TO BE A LOT OF SPACE BETWEEN THEM, ESPECIALLY WHEN YOU SAW THE OVERHEAD HEAD AREA WITH THE TREES, BUT MM-HMM
THERE'S ACTUALLY A 40 FOOT, I THINK THAT'S A LANDSCAPE EASEMENT OR COULD BE A RIGHT OF WAY.
I'M NOT SURE WHAT, BUT THERE'S REALLY ONLY, THERE'S 44 FEET BETWEEN THE PROPERTY LINE AND THE BUILDING, AND THEN YOU HAVE THOSE LITTLE VEGETABLE OUT, UH, DOORS THAT LET YOU OUT THE BACK.
SO THAT ONLY REALLY GIVES YOU, I'M GONNA ESTIMATE ABOUT 35, 36 FEET FROM PROPERTY LINE TO ACTUAL DOORWAY.
UH, YOU WOULD NEED, THE TOWN CODE IS 20 FEET FOR A PARKING SPOT FOR, FOR A, UH, A CAR TO GO IN.
AND THEN I USUALLY NEED TO DESIGN 24 FEET FOR THE CAR TO GET OUT AND PULL.
UH, EVEN IF YOU WENT TO 20 FEET AND 20 FEET, THAT'S STILL, YOU'RE ABOUT FOUR FEET SHORT.
SO THERE'S REALLY NO WAY TO PUT PARKING BACK THERE.
UH, THAT WOULD BE THE EASIEST, SIMPLEST YOU WOULD NEVER HAVE HEARD FROM US IF THAT WAS POSSIBLE.
WHAT IF IT'S PARALLEL PARKING? UH, WELL YOU STILL GOT AN ISSUE IF YOU GET ONE CAR GOING THROUGH THERE, THAT STILL NEEDS TO BE, LET'S SAY 12 TO 13 FEET IF IT'S ONE WAY.
BUT THEN YOU GET IN THERE AND PEOPLE ARE PARKING, THEY HAVE TO GET OUT.
'CAUSE AT SOME POINT YOU'RE GONNA HAVE A CONFLICT.
SO YOU'VE GOT TO HAVE WHAT, 18 FEET WOULD BE THE MINIMUM OF THE TOWN, USUALLY FOR A PUTT OR SOMETHING.
REQUIRES 22 FEET FOR TWO CARS TO PASS.
SO THAT'S STILL IN, IN BETWEEN THE BUILDINGS IS ONLY ABOUT 20 FEET BETWEEN THOSE TWO SOUTH BUILDINGS.
SO THAT'S REALLY NOT ENOUGH SPOT SPACE TO GET PARALLEL OR YES, SIR.
SO, BUT UNDERNEATH THAT, IF, IF THAT WAS JUST A, A ROAD TO THE PARKING THAT WAS UNDER SECTIONS 11 AND 12, THAT EMPTY AREA THE LOT 12, IF YOU SEE THAT MM-HMM
YOU KNOW THAT RIGHT THERE WOULD HAVE TURNAROUND, TURNAROUND OR PARKING SPOTS RIGHT THERE
I MEAN IT'S STILL BETWEEN THE TWO BUILDINGS, THE, UH, THE UH, TWO BUILDINGS THAT ARE ALREADY UP.
YOU'RE STILL ONLY, I I DON'T HAVE IT TO MENTION, BUT, UM, IT'S PROBABLY GONNA BE TOO TIGHT TO GET TWO CARS TO PASS AND A SIDEWALK GOING TO THAT SIDE DOOR.
IS THAT BECAUSE THE BUILDING'S BIGGER THAN THE ORIGINAL PLAN? UH, I WOULDN'T KNOW.
THERE WAS NEVER ANY LIKE, FOOTPRINT FOR, I, I DID THE ORIGINAL PLAN BACK IN 98.
[00:45:01]
FOOTPRINTS, YOU KNOW, IT WAS JUST A GRAPHIC LIKE YEAH, HERE'S A, HERE'S A SQUARE.SO IF THERE WAS ROOM SOUTH OF BUILDING 1112 AND WEST OF BUILDING 1314 FOR A SMALL LOT, YOU'RE SAYING WE'D STILL NEED ROUGHLY 24 FEET FOR TWO-WAY TRAFFIC.
TO GET THAT 24 FEET, YOU WOULD HAVE TO GET A VARIANCE TO GET IN TO THAT BUFFER BETWEEN THE PROPERTY LINE AND POPLAR AVENUE.
IS THAT CORRECT, TAMMY? UM, NO.
IF YOU COULD GET IN THERE, I THINK YOU COULD GET AT LEAST ONE ROW OF, UH, PERPENDICULAR PARKING.
AND I, I DO BELIEVE, I'D HAVE TO LOOK THE, AT THE ORIGINAL PLA, BUT I THINK THAT'S THE RIGHT OF WAY, WHICH THE STATE WILL NEVER GIVE YOU PERMISSION TO PUT PARKING BACK THERE.
YEAH, I WAS ABOUT TO SAY THAT'S, I BELIEVE THAT'S TDOT RIGHT OF WAY.
I DON'T THINK THERE'S A OPEN SPACE LOT ALONG POPLAR.
WE LEARNED THAT WITH THE HOUSES THAT WERE BUILT IN SECTION E, THERE'S, THERE'S NO OPEN SPACE LOT.
IT JUST GOES STRAIGHT TO THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY.
I'M SORRY, SAY THAT ONE MORE TIME.
THERE'S NO, UH, OPEN SPACE LOT THAT THEY COULD GET INTO.
IT WOULD BE THE PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY THAT'S OWNED BY TDOT.
THAT'S SO YOU'RE SAYING THAT LAND AT THE SOUTHERN PART OF THE PROPERTY LINE BETWEEN THAT AND POPLAR, THAT'S STATE LAND THAT WE CAN'T ENCROACH ON.
I CAN'T SPEAK FOR THE STATE, BUT THEY'RE PROBABLY NOT GONNA ALLOW A, A PRIVATE DRIVEWAY OR PARKING LOT IN A, IN PUBLIC RIGHT OF WAY IN STATE RIGHT OF WAY.
SO OTHER THAN THAT I WOULD STATE THAT, UH, IT'S, IT'S MORE OF A, A COMEDY OF ERRORS THAT'S LED US TO, HERE, THERE IS NO INTENTION EVER TO FOOL OR, OR YOU KNOW, TRY TO SNEAK SOMETHING THROUGH.
UH, AND, AND I HOPE YOU UNDERSTAND.
I I DON'T WANT TO EVER INFER THAT THAT WAS THE CASE.
UH, I JUST, I'M TRYING TO SAY, OKAY, WE, WE'VE GOT A BAD SITUATION, HOW CAN WE MAKE THE BEST OF IT? AND SO THAT'S, I'M JUST TRYING TO LOOK AT OPTIONS.
ANY OTHER, UH, QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? UM, WHAT WOULD THE, UH, REDUCTION OF THE BUILDINGS HAVE TO BE TO MEET, TO MEET THE, UH, REQUIRED PARKING SPACES WITHOUT A VARIANCE? WHAT WOULD THEY HAVE TO REDUCE TO? UH, I CAN'T GIVE YOU THAT INFORMATION RIGHT NOW, BUT YEAH.
I'M JUST NOT MY, MY HEAD'S NOT MATTING.
WELL, BUT I THIS UNDERSTANDING THAT THE, OR THAT THE EXISTING, WHAT IS IT, THREE BUILDING FOUR BUILDINGS.
NOW WE'RE AT 5,500 ROUGHLY, OR THAT MUCH OVER SIZE.
SO THEN YOU'RE TAKING THE OTHER ONES DOWN TO 3000 SQUARE FEET OR SO.
LIKE, SO BASICALLY I THOUGHT IT WAS LESS.
WELL YOU, YOU ORIGINALLY HAD FOUR BUILDINGS AT 4,000 SQUARE FEET AND SO FAR EACH ONE OF THEM, ROUGH, AVERAGE, DON'T HOLD THE EXACT MATH TO ME IS AROUND 5,500 SQUARE FEET.
SO EACH BUILDING IS BASED ON THE SQUARE FOOTAGE REQUIRES FIVE MORE PARKING SPOTS.
SO WITH FOUR BUILDINGS, FOUR TIMES FIVE, IT'S JUST BECAUSE OF THE NATURE OF THE SIZE OF THE BUILDINGS, THEY NEEDED 20 MORE PARKING SPOTS.
SO EVEN IF BUILDING 1516 WAS REDUCED TO 4,000, THAT'S ONLY FINE IN FIVE PARKING SPOTS.
AND THEN, UH, WHOEVER OWNS LOT OR BUILDING NINE AND 10, I MEAN THEY, UH, HAVE A CHECKERS OR SOMETHING, YOU KNOW.
SO, SO IS IT THE BOTTOM TWO THAT WENT TO FIVE 50? 500? NO, THE TOP.
OH, THERE'S ONE OF THE TOP TWO.
DID THE TOP ONE FROM BY THE STREET GO BIG TOO? IT DID.
IT WAS, IT'S SLIGHTLY OVER 4,000.
SO IT'S CLOSER TO FOUR THOUGH.
I HAVEN'T, I'M ALREADY DOWN BY SEVEN.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? ALL THANK YOU SIR.
SO BECAUSE THERE ARE MULTIPLE OWNERS OF BUILDINGS, IF, IS THERE ANY OTHER DEVELOPER BUILDING OWNER THAT WOULD LIKE TO SAY ANYTHING? OKAY, COME ON UP.
[00:50:01]
NAME'S CHIP JOHNSON.UH, 8 4 6 LANCE LOT LANE IN COLLIERVILLE, TENNESSEE.
I THANK YOU FOR THE OPPORTUNITY TO GIVE, UH, GIVE YOU MY, UH, TAKE ON THIS.
UH, MY WIFE AND I HAVE OWNED LOTS NINE AND 10, UH, SINCE 19, EXCUSE ME, SINCE 2018.
UH, FROM THAT POINT WE'VE BEEN TRYING TO DEVELOP THIS PAIR OF LOTS INTO THE OFFICE BUILDING TO HOUSE.
AS JAMIE HAD MENTIONED, UH, MY A AND E FIRM, UH, MY PROPOSED OFFICE SPACE IS IN ITS FINAL STAGES OF REVIEW AND PLANNING.
UM, I UNDERSTAND IF WE CAN WORK THROUGH THIS.
IT'S, UH, A COUPLE, COUPLE CHANGES, WHICH I BELIEVE I'VE ADDRESSED.
AND WHEN THOSE ARE DONE, HOPEFULLY THEY'LL HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO PULL A BUILDING PERMIT.
UH, THAT OFFICE CON, THAT OFFICE BUILDING IS SLIGHTLY SMALLER THAN THE ALLOTTED 37 50 FOR MY PAIR OF LOTS.
UM, UH, THE TOWN SINCE WITH, WITH THIS, THE TOWN'S PROVIDED GUIDANCE THAT I CANNOT BE ISSUED A DEVELOPABLE PERMIT OR BUILDING PERMIT UNLESS THIS VARIANCE IS APPROVED, EVEN THOUGH THIS OR MY PROPOSED DEVELOPMENT COMPLIES WITH THE FILED 1998 PD REQUIREMENTS.
AND OF COURSE, FOR THESE REASONS, I REQUEST THAT WE APPROVE THE VARIANCE.
NOW, I WOULD LIKE TO ADDRESS A COUPLE THINGS THAT I, I THINK JAMIE, UH, HO HOPEFULLY HAD, HAD, HAD, UH, UH, WAS GONNA ADDRESS.
BUT, UH, THE, UH, THE LOT, THE, UH, QUESTION ABOUT ONE OF Y'ALL HAD A QUESTION ABOUT THE PARKING SPACES ONLY BEING 78.
THOSE STALLS CURRENTLY ARE MUCH WIDER IN, IN LOCATIONS THAN, THAN A STANDARD NINE FOOT BY 18 FOOT DEEP PARKING STALL.
SO BY RE UH, RE-PIPING THE LOT, WHICH MAY BE WHAT, UH, THE ASH ASHWORTH DESIGN WAS TRYING TO DO, WE CAN, I, AS A PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER CAN ATTEST THAT WE CAN GET, UH, 85, UH, STALLS AND THEN MEET OUR A BA REQUIREMENTS.
SO OUR, OUR HANDICAP REQUIREMENTS FOR PARKING STALLS.
SO THAT DOES ALLEVIATE A LITTLE BIT OF THE CONCERNS AND, UH, UH, ABOUT, UH, ABOUT OUR ALLOTMENT.
SOMEBODY HAD ASKED, UH, ALSO ABOUT THAT MAGIC NUMBER OF 13, THAT'S JUST IN A GENERAL AGREEMENT THAT THE EXISTING PROPERTY OWNERS WOULD HAVE A MINIMUM, UH, UH, PARKING STALL ALLOTMENT BASED ON THE STALLS THAT WERE AVAILABLE AT THAT TIME.
UM, I TO, TO ADDRESS THE, UH, ISSUES OF MAYBE RE-PIPING THE PARKING LOT WE'RE LIKELY TO NEED TO OVERLAY THAT PARKING LOT OR AT LEAST DO SOME, UH, SURFACE PREPARATIONS.
SO WHEN THAT TIME COMES, I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE, AND, UH, YOU KNOW, ALL ALL WE'RE OUT IS A COUPLE, COUPLE GALLONS OF PAINT.
'CAUSE WE'RE, THE REST OF IT WILL BE STRIPED.
I WOULD SUGGEST THAT WE RETRIP IT TO ME TO MEET THAT 85 PARKING STALL REQUIREMENT THAT I SHOW ON MY DEVELOPMENT PLAN.
JAMIE, DID YOU WANT TO, JUST TO QUICKLY THROW IN THAT THE TOWN'S MINIMUM WIDTH IS 10 FEET, 10 BY 20 IS A PARKING STANDARD, A STALL IN CARTERVILLE, NOT NINE BY 18.
A LOT OF JURISDICTIONS DO HAVE NINE BY 18.
NINE BY 18 IS COMMON WITH EVERY, UH, I DO FEDERAL GOVERNMENT WORK.
EVERY FEDERAL DEPARTMENT PARTNER, I HAVE EVERY TRAFFIC ENGINEERING, UH, DOCUMENT THAT I SEE NINE BY NINE BY 18 AS A STANDARD PARKING STALL, BUT NOT IN THE TOWN OF CARVILLE.
AND ARE, AND THESE ARE 10 FEET WIDE CURRENTLY.
I'M SORRY, THESE ARE 10 FEET WIDE.
DO WE KNOW, OR ARE THEY THEY'RE 10 AND 12 AND 11.
THEY'RE JUST, THEY'RE ALL OVER THE PLACE.
JAMIE, THE, THE, THE PICTURE YOU HAVE SHOWING UP HERE SHOWS 20 STALLS PROPOSED MINIMUM NINE FEET.
THIS PLAN HASN'T BEEN, UH, COMPLETELY APPROVED YET.
IT'S STILL STILL PENDING, SO IT'LL, IT'LL HAVE TO MEET TOWN STANDARDS.
WE, SORRY WE STOPPED YOU, SIR.
UM, AND, AND AS A PRACTICE, UH, I'M A PRACTICE AND LICENSED PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER, STATE OF TENNESSEE.
SO WHEN I MAKE THESE QUOTES AND, AND REFERENCES, IT'S BASED ON MY EXPERIENCE.
UH, JAMIE, WHEN YOU GET AN OPPORTUNITY, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THE TOWN'S MINIMUM REQUIREMENT AT NINE FEET.
I WAS, I'M, I DON'T PRACTICE HERE IN COLLIERVILLE PER SE, SO I WOULD LOVE TO BE AWARE OF THAT.
UM, I, I THINK, UH, I THINK THAT PRETTY MUCH DOES IT FOR ME.
AND AGAIN, I JUST, UH, I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME AND I I WOULD APPRECIATE THE, UH, APPROVAL OF THIS VARIANCE.
AND I HAVE ONE MORE CARD FROM TINA KELLER HALL.
[00:55:04]
HI TINA.JUST STATE YOUR NAME AND ADDRESS PLEASE.
MY HUSBAND AND I OWN THE PROPERTY AT 2 4 1 GRAND STAPLE DRIVE.
IN REGARD TO THIS OFFICE AREA, WHERE DOES YOUR HOUSE LIE ROUGHLY? DIRECTLY THE, JEREMY, CAN YOU SHOW, UH, ONE OF THE SLIDES THAT, THAT SHOWS A MORE AERIAL VIEW AND THEN WHEN YOU SEE THE FOUR, UM, RESIDENTS WHEN YOU COME OFF OF POPLAR, THE FOUR RESIDENTS THAT'S ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE, THOSE ARE THE BRAND NEW RESIDENCE.
WE ARE ESSENTIALLY THAT VERY BE THE FIFTH ONE.
ON THIS ONE? YEAH, YOU CAN THE FIFTH HOUSE ON THE LEFT.
YEAH, IT'S THE ONLY ONE WITH THE, IT LOOKS LIKE A WHITE VEHICLE IN THE DRIVEWAY.
OUR CONCERN IS, WE HAVE SEVERAL CONCERNS ON THIS AND UM, JAMIE'S BEEN A GREAT DEAL OF HELP WHEN ANS ANSWERING QUESTIONS.
ONE, UM, BIG CONCERN IS, IS THE NUMBERS.
THERE'S SOME DISCREPANCIES IN THE NUMBERS, UH, OF THE SQUARE FOOTAGE, OBVIOUSLY.
UH, UH, US HOMEOWNERS CAN'T, WE DON'T HAVE PRIVILEGE TO THE BUILDING PLANS AND THINGS OF WHAT THEY'RE USING TO GET SQUARE FOOTAGE.
WE HAVE TO GO BOW WITH THE ASSESSOR'S OFFICE SHOWS AND THE ASSESSOR'S OFFICE IS SHOWING DIFFERENT NUMBERS.
UM, THEY'RE SHOWING THAT THE BUILDING, WHICH WE SAY IS THE FIRST BUILDING, WHICH IS ON LOT FIVE AND SIX.
THE TOTAL SQUARE FOOTAGE IS 47 52.
UM, THE SECOND BUILDING ON LOT SEVEN AND EIGHT, IT'S SHOWING THE SQUARE FOOTAGE OF ACTUALLY 59 52.
UM, OF COURSE THE, THE THIRD BUILDING WOULD BE ON LIGHTS NINE AND 10 THAT MR. JOHNSON SPOKE OF THAT.
UM, HE WANTS TO, TO BUILD A MODERATE 30, AROUND 3,700 SQUARE FOOT.
UM, AND THEN THE FOURTH BUILDING THAT'S ON LOT 11 AND 12, THE ASSESSOR'S OFFICE SHOWING IT TO BE 37 38 SQUARE FEET.
THE FIFTH BUILDING, UM, THAT'S CURRENTLY UNDER CONSTRUCTION NOW, UH, THAT'S ON LOT 13 AND 14 IS NOT SHOWING ON THE ASSESSOR'S OFFICE, UM, WEBSITE OBVIOUSLY YET.
UM, HOWEVER, JAMIE DID LET ME KNOW THAT GOING BY THE BUILDING SITE PLAN, IT SHOWED TO BE 55 22, THE SAME AS THE FIRST BUILDING, UM, THAT MR. BORA HAD BUILT ON LIKE SEVEN AND EIGHT.
SO THERE'S A DISCREPANCY THERE.
THE BUILDING SITE PLAN OF 55 22 IS THE SQUARE FOOTAGE BEING PRESENTED, BUT THEN THE ASSESSOR'S OFFICE IS SHOWING 59 52.
SO, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT A DIFFERENCE OF 400 SOMEBODY'S SQUARE FEET.
SO ESSENTIALLY ADDS UP WHEN SHE, YOU KNOW, SO IT'S LIKE WHERE, WHAT NUMBERS ARE CORRECT, UH, YOU KNOW, WHAT THE SQUARE FOOTAGE IS OF THESE, OF THE ACTUAL BUILDINGS.
UM, AND THEN OF COURSE THE, THE SIXTH BUILDING WOULD BE LOTS, 15 AND 16 WOULD BE THE SAME.
THAT IS OUR UNDERSTANDING MR. BORE'S PLANS IS TO BUILD BASICALLY THE SAME TYPE OF BUILDING MIMIC THE OTHER TWO, WHICH WE'RE, WE'RE LOOKING AROUND 55 59, WHICH WHOEVER, WHATEVER NUMBER CORRECT.
UM, SO THIS WOULD, THE DISCREPANCIES IS A LITTLE OFF TO US HOMEOWNERS 'CAUSE THE NUMBERS ARE ALL OVER THE PLACE.
UM, ANOTHER BIG CONCERN OF OURS IS WHEN THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT OFF STREET PARKING, UM, ONE THAT'S GONNA BE DIRECTLY IN FRONT OF OUR HOMES.
I WILL SAY THERE IS ONE BUS STOP, UM, IN THE AFTERNOONS THAT IS IN FRONT OF 2 6 1 GRAND STEEPLE, WHICH IS JUST TWO HOUSES DOWN FROM MINE.
UM, THAT DOES DROP OFF IN THE AFTERNOONS.
THERE USED TO BE ONE, UM, I'M TELL MYSELF I'M NOT UP IN THE MORNINGS MOST OF THE TIME NOW TO SEE THE PICKUP, BUT A LOT OF TIMES THE CHILDREN WOULD GATHER THERE AT THE CORNER OF JOCKEY COVE, WHICH IS THE VERY FIRST COVE, UM RIGHT, RIGHT.
ESSENTIALLY IS KIND OF BEHIND, UM, THE OFFICE PARK.
THE CHILDREN WOULD GATHER THERE TO BE PICKED UP IN THE MORNING TIME.
UM, SO WE'RE GONNA HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THAT.
YOU, YOUR THREE MINUTES ARE UP, BUT I KNOW YOU'RE PROBABLY SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF A FEW OTHER PEOPLE
[01:00:01]
BACK THERE, SO I'VE GIVEN YOU A LITTLE EXTRA TIME.ARE THERE ANY OTHER KEY POINTS THAT YOU WANTED TO BRING UP? WELL, RIGHT NOW THERE'S ONLY THREE HANDICAPPED PARKING PLACES IN THE PARKING LOT ITSELF.
IF THERE'S EVER A, UH, AN OCCASION THAT MORE HANDICAP, THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO GO TO THE ON STREET PARKING.
WELL, WE ALREADY HAVE A HUGE SPEEDING ISSUE ON GRAND STEEPLE THAT EVERYBODY'S TRYING TO ADDRESS.
I MEAN, IN COLLIERVILLE PD AND SHERIFF'S OFFICE, EVERYBODY'S TRYING TO DO WHAT THEY CAN, BUT THAT'S GONNA ALSO CAUSE A CONCERN IF THE THREE PARKING PLACES HANDICAP'S FULL AND THEN YOU'VE GOT SOMEBODY THAT'S HANDICAPPED NEEDING TO GET OVER THERE, BUT THEY'RE GONNA BE ON THE STREET AND SO THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO CROSS THE STREET OR, OR WHAT HAVE YOU.
WE HAVE NUMEROUS TIMES NOT RECEIVE MAIL BECAUSE APPARENTLY YOU CAN'T PARK WITHIN SO MANY FEET OF OUR MAILBOXES, WHICH ARE ON THE CURB.
WE HAVE INDIVIDUAL MAILBOXES AT OUR CURB.
UM, THEY'RE NOT REQUIRED TO GET OUT OF THEIR TRUCK TO PUT MAIL IN IN OUR MAILBOXES.
AND I WAS TOLD THAT PERSONALLY, UM, BECAUSE I MESSED UP AND PARKED MY OWN VEHICLE TOO CLOSE TO MY MAILBOX.
AND WHEN I QUESTIONED WHY I COULDN'T GET MAIL, I WAS TOO CLOSE.
SO THERE'S ANOTHER ISSUE THERE.
UM, YOU KNOW, AND SO IT IS JUST NUMEROUS CONCERNS.
AND RIGHT NOW, ONE QUESTION I DO HAVE IS THERE WAS A MENTION OF, UM, THERE WERE SAYING THE BUSINESS OWNERS WERE SAYING ABOUT 13, UM, SPACES PER THEIR BUSINESSES.
WELL, THAT'S THE BUSINESS OWNERS.
NOW WE'VE GOT THE BUILDING THAT'S UNDER CONSTRUCTION NOW THAT IS NOT LEASED.
AND THEN WE'VE GOT, I UNDERSTAND MR. JOHNSON, HE'LL BE HIS OWN BUSINESS, BUT THEN WE HAVE, UH, THE OTHER BUILDING THAT'S ON THE FINAL LOT THAT'S NOT EVEN LEASED.
SO WHAT ABOUT ALL THE FUTURE BUSINESS? I MEAN, WE, WE CAN'T REALLY QUESTION FUTURE BUSINESS.
WE DON'T KNOW WHO THEY ARE AS FAR AS HOW MANY SPACES THEIR BUSINESS IS GONNA NEED.
SO I'M GONNA GO A LITTLE OUTTA ORDER HERE.
SO BEFORE I CALL FOR A MOTION, I WANTED TO GIVE THE BOARD ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY TO ASK QUESTIONS OF THE STAFF BEFORE WE MAKE A MOTION.
I, I LOOKED UP THE PARKING STANDARDS AND IT'S NON FEET IS ALLOWED AS A MINIMUM WIDTH, BUT IT'S 20 FEET IN DEPTH.
SO THAT BRINGS A A, A GOOD QUESTION THEN.
SO IF WE DID DO NINE FEET, WHICH IS WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE, WHEREAS THE ORIGINAL FORMULA, DOES THAT GIVE US 85 SPOTS? AND THEN IF SO, WHAT WOULD BE THE NEEDED NUMBER OF SPOTS STILL? HE'S RAISING HIS HAND.
WEST ASHWORTH, I CAN ADDRESS THAT TECHNICAL BIT.
CHIP CALL ON UP TO THE MICROPHONE.
IS IT OKAY IF I CALL YOU CHIP? YOU PUT THAT IN YOUR COURT ALRIGHT.
WANTS TO CALL ME ALFRED, EUGENE AND
ALRIGHT, GO AHEAD AND STATE YOUR NAME AGAIN.
UH, SO YES, THAT DOES BRING US UP TO 85 SPOTS AND COMPLIANT WITH THE A BA REQUIREMENTS.
SO WHAT THEY WOULD, THE, THE ORIGINAL AMOUNT OF SPOTS THOUGH NEEDED WAS 96.
WAS THAT 97? 9, 7 80, 87 AND THEN IT WAS 93 WITH THE BIGGER SIZED BUILDINGS.
87 WAS THE ORIGINALLY PLANNED.
AND THEN IN 94, BASED ON, UH, MR. MR BORE'S THIRD BUILDING AND MR. JOHNSON'S BUILDING.
SO BOTH THESE BUILDINGS ARE ON HOLD BASED ON THIS, NONE OF THEM CAN BE BUILT UNTIL THIS IS ADDRESSED.
AND THE, THE ONE ON THE, THE SOUTHWEST THAT IS ALREADY, HAS THAT ONE ALSO ALREADY BEEN APPROVED FOR THE SITE PLAN, THE BUILDING PLAN, THE SOUTHWEST, THE SITE PLAN HAS BEEN APPROVED.
WE JUST HAVEN'T ISSUED THE PERMIT YET.
WE PUT, WE PUT IT ON HOLD AS SOON AS WE LEARNED THAT THE SITE DOESN'T HAVE ENOUGH PARKING.
SO IF WE HAVE 85 SPOTS, THAT'S AN INCREASE OF SIX.
[01:05:03]
BECAUSE RIGHT NOW HOW MANY STREET PARKING SPOTS ARE BEING PROPOSED AGAIN? UH, SIX.ON, UH, ON A PLAN PROVIDED BY MR. BOARD.
SO IT'S KIND OF A TWO PART VARIANCE IN THAT WE'RE GOING TO CHANGE THE RATIO AND THEN STILL ADD SIX IF WE LEAVE IT AT 79.
BECAUSE IF WE JUST ADD SIX, WE'RE AT 85, WHICH IS STILL NOT WHERE WE NEED TO BE.
WELL, IF THEY RETRIP IT, THEY GET 85 AND THEN THEY ADD THE SIX THAT ARE ON THE THIS SIDE, THEN THAT WOULD BE 91.
SO ANOTHER WAY TO GO ABOUT IT.
AND SOMETIMES, SOMETIMES IT'S DANGEROUS TO MAKE MOTIONS ON THE FLOOR AND FREEWHEEL IT, BUT IT'S TO KEEP THE NUMBER AT ONE PER 300.
BUT JUST ACKNOWLEDGE THAT ON-STREET PARKING CAN BE USED TO MEET THE MINIMUM.
UM, THAT, BUT THAT, AND THAT'S ALSO EFFECTIVELY WHAT YOU'RE DOING WITH THE ONE PER 331 AND ALLOWING THE, A LOT OF ON STREETE PARKING.
UH, SO WHETHER YOU CHANGE THE NUMBER OR NOT, IT'S, THEY NEED THE ON-STREET PARKING TO PROVIDE THAT, THAT PEAK TIME QUESTION.
WHAT IS, IS THERE ANY CONSIDERATION FOR, UH, WITH THOSE CARS PARKING NEAR THE SITE, UM, AND SAFETY ISSUES WHEN, WHEN YOU GOT A CAR COMING AROUND THAT CORNER AND YOU GOT CARS PARKED ON THE SIDE COMING OUTTA THAT PARKING LOT, HAS ANYBODY LOOKED AT THE, THE, THE SITE PERSPECTIVE OF, OF THAT? OUR TIRE ENGINEER HAS LOOKED AT IT AND, AND THEY, BEFORE ANY SIGNAGE OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT'S PUT PUT OUT, THEY'LL DEFINITELY TAKE THAT IN INTO CONSIDERATION.
WHEN YOU LOOK AT THIS, THIS HAS TWO ENTRANCES AND YOU HAVE A, A U IS THERE A REQUIREMENT THAT IT HAS A U 'CAUSE IF THEY EXTENDED THAT WHERE THERE WERE JUST TWO SEPARATE ENTRANCES, YOU COULD PROBABLY GET MORE ABOUT SIX MORE PARKING SPOTS.
YOU JUST WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO GO, YOU'D HAVE TO, EACH ONE WOULD BE ITS INDIVIDUAL ENTRANCE.
DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? YOU GO BACK TO THE OTHER ONE BEFORE THIS OR THAT WORKS.
THE ONE THEY WERE AT, GO BACK.
IT'S THE T THAT'S RIGHT UP BELOW THE, WELL, THERE'S A RAMP THERE.
SO I DON'T KNOW HOW THAT WOULD AFFECT IT, BUT I WAS SAYING IF THAT WENT ALL THE WAY TO THE CROSS AND THERE WERE TWO PARKING SPOT SPOTS INSTEAD OF ONE THAT GOES AT YOU, WE'D BE ABLE TO ADD.
YEAH, YOU'RE GONNA LOSE THEM ANYWAY.
YOU'RE GONNA LOSE THEM BY, YOU'LL LOSE THEM ONE WAY.
WELL, LET'S, LET'S MAKE, LET'S BEFORE WE HAVE I'S A QUESTION TO JAMES.
JAMIE, WHAT WAS THE TOWN'S RECOMMENDATION ON THIS? AGAIN, APPROVAL.
UM, WITH THE OFFSITE COUNTING, KNOWING THAT THAT CAN MEET THE, UM, THE PEAK, THE PEAK TIME PARKING.
BUT IF IT WASN'T FOR ON STREET PARKING, WE WOULD NOT HAVE RECOMMENDED APPROVAL OF, OF THIS SITUATION.
AND JAMIE, IF WE WANTED TO AMEND THE VARIANCE TO INCLUDE RE-PIPING THE PARKING LOT TO GET THOSE ADDITIONAL PARKING SPOTS, THAT'S POSSIBLE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR STAFF? IF NOT, MAY I HAVE A MOTION PLEASE? MOTION TO APPROVE AS WRITTEN ON SCREEN PLUS THE ADDITION OF RETRIP FOR THE ADDITIONAL SIX SPOTS.
I BELIEVE IT WAS, OR TO THE NINE FOOT STANDARD.
SO BEFORE I PROCEED WITH DISCUSSION ON THIS MOTION, MY TOWN EMPLOYEES, IS THAT ALL OKAY WITH THAT AMENDMENT? OKAY.
SO RETRIP PARKING LOT AT NINE FEET.
AT THIS POINT, THE DISCUSSION IS GONNA BE AMONGST THE BOARD MEMBERS.
SO THERE'S NO TALKING FROM THE AUDIENCE NOW AT THIS POINT.
SO WHERE I WAS, UH, ALSO WAS RUNNING THROUGH MY HEAD.
UM, I'M CONCERNED THAT WE'RE TRYING TO BE DESIGNERS AND ENGINEERS UP HERE.
AND MATHEMATICIANS, IF YOU WILL,
A PRIVATE CITIZEN PURCHASED A PROPERTY WITH THE IDEA OF PUTTING A SPECIFIC BUSINESS.
YOU CAN, YOU CAN, IF YOU COULD SAY A HOMEOWNER PURCHASED A PIECE OF PROPERTY TO BUILD A HOME OF A CERTAIN SIZE THAT WAS APPROVED,
[01:10:02]
MONEY HAS BEEN SPENT, A LOT OF MONEY'S BEEN SPENT AS A, AS A, AS JUST STRAIGHT ON PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS ARE JUST SCREAMING AT MY, IN MY HEAD RIGHT HERE.AND, AND I, I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ANY OTHER OPTION BUT TO APPROVE THIS VARIANCE, GIVEN HOW THIS HAS ALL PLAYED OUT.
AND SOME, WE, I THINK WE HAVE TO SEE HOW THIS GOES, OR THE TOWN'S GONNA HAVE TO SEE HOW THIS GOES.
IT'S NOT, IT'S NOT FUN FOR ANYBODY.
THIS IS, THIS IS EVEN THE, THE, THE, THE RESIDENTS OF STEEPLECHASE.
AND SOMEBODY'S GONNA HAVE TO MAKE CHANGES ALONG THE WAY AS WE SEE HOW THIS GOES.
WE COULD NEVER FILL THAT PARKING LOT.
THIS IS NE MAY NEVER BE AN ISSUE.
BUT JUST GIVEN HOW THIS HAS PLAYED OUT, I THINK, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY OTHER WAY TO BUT TO APPROVE THIS VARIANCE, REGARDLESS OF WHAT, HOW BAD SOME OF THE SITUATIONS, HOW, HOW BAD IT, I, I'LL JUST GO ON THE RECORD AS I CAN'T APPROVE IT WITH CONSIDERING PARKING ON A RESIDENTIAL SIDE THAT'S GONNA BE IN FRONT OF, OF, EVEN THOUGH IT MAY NEVER BE USED, WE'RE COUNTING THAT PARKING THAT'S GONNA BE IN FRONT OF YOUR MAILBOX.
THERE HAS TO BE ANOTHER OPTION THERE.
I MEAN, I DON'T, YOU KNOW, I, I HAVE, I HAVE AN ISSUE WITH SAYING THEY CAN USE THOSE EIGHT ON THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE.
'CAUSE THEY HAVE TO, IT'S NOT JUST THE SIX.
'CAUSE WE DON'T GET TO THE NUMBER ASIDE FROM, ASIDE FROM THE PARKING SPACES, LET'S, LET'S PUT IT INTO A PERSPECTIVE.
ONLY IF YOU CAN BUILD THIS HOUSE, THIS SIZE HOUSE, YOU PAY, YOU ALREADY PAID FOR IT.
EVERY, EVERY, LET'S, LET'S JUST, LET'S GO A LITTLE BIT FARTHER AND SAY IT'S A, UM, I'M NOT GONNA USE THE TERM RENTAL PROPERTY IN COLLIERVILLE, BUT LET'S SAY YOU'RE IN ANOTHER AREA OF TOWN, RIGHT? AND YOUR MATH IS ALL BASED OFF OF CERTAIN THINGS.
AND TO, I DON'T CARE IF IT'S PARKING, I DON'T CARE WHAT IT IS.
THE TOWN APPROVED THIS, THIS, THIS.
SOMEBODY'S GOTTA FIGURE THIS OUT.
AND, AND I THINK THAT'S REALLY WHY THE TOWN IS PUSHING FOR, FOR THIS IS THIS WAS APPROVED BY THE TOWN.
AND TH THIS YOU, YOU'RE, YOU'RE BASICALLY JUST GONNA STRIP SOMEBODY'S PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS TO SAY, YOU KNOW, WELL, SORRY, WE, WE MESSED UP.
REGARDLESS OF WHAT THE ISSUE IS.
UH, THE FIRST ONE, WE, WE DON'T KNOW WHAT THE PEAK HOURS ARE AND HOW, HOW MUCH THAT'S GOING TO GENERATE.
WE DON'T HAVE ALL INFORMATION ON THAT.
THE OTHER THING, I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, UH, BUT IT, THIS OPENS UP, UH, A PANDORA'S DOOR FOR OTHER PEOPLE TO PLAY THIS GAME AND PUSH THIS, UH, BECAUSE I MEAN, YOU GOT TWO, YOU GOT ONE SIZE.
WHEN YOU START IT, ALL OF A SUDDEN, MANY YEARS LATER, YOU GOT A BIGGER SIZE.
NOW, YOU KNOW, WE ARE IN A POSITION NOW WE HAVE TO APPROVE A, A VARIANCE.
WHEN WE INITIALLY APPROVED A SMALLER, UH, PERSPECTIVE, ALL WHEN I, AND, AND THAT'S, THAT'S MY, MY MY POSITION.
BUT WE, THERE'S A PRECEDENCE THERE NOW.
BUT WHAT PRECEDENCE YOU, YOU, YOU MENTIONED A GAME WE PLAY, BUT WHAT PRECEDENTS, BECAUSE NOBODY'S PLAYING A GAME.
IF SOMEBODY SCREWS UP AGAIN, LIKE NOT SOMEBODY WOULD'VE TO BE ON THE INSIDE GOING, HEY, SCREW UP SO I CAN GET SOMETHING IN HERE.
IT'S, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT, UH, ABOUT US PLAYING A GAME OR THE CITY PLAYING GAME.
THERE'S PRESIDENTS FOR OTHER PEOPLE'S.
IF IT HAPPENED TO FALL INTO A SIMILAR SITUATION AS THIS SAYING, WELL, YOU ALLOW THESE PEOPLE TO HAVE A VARIANCE WHEN WE HAVE TO DO IT INDIVIDUALLY.
AND I WOULD WOULD SAY YES TO THOSE IF THE TOWN'S TOWN SCREWED UP.
WELL, BACK TO PRECEDENCE OF ONE COMMENT I'M GONNA MAKE JUST IN GENERAL IS EVERY CASE IS UNIQUE.
AND YES, THERE MIGHT BE PRECEDENTS, BUT EVERY CASE IS UNIQUE.
SO IF WE DO SOMETHING IN A VARIANCE FOR THIS AREA, THAT DOESN'T MEAN WE HAVE TO DO IT SOMEWHERE ELSE.
AS FAR AS THIS BOARD IS CONCERNED, BUT BEYOND THIS BOARD, BOARD IS NOT, LEMME THROW SOMETHING OUT JUST AS Y'ALL ARE DELIBERATING, AND I HAVEN'T TALKED TO ANY OF Y'ALL IN ADVANCE ABOUT THIS.
I DON'T KNOW HOW YOU'RE GONNA VOTE.
UM, THERE ARE ONLY FOUR OF Y'ALL HERE TONIGHT.
IT TAKES THREE FOR IT TO PASS A TIE VOTE DOES NOT PASS.
[01:15:01]
IF YOU DON'T HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION, IF, IF YOU, IF YOU DON'T, IF YOU WANNA SAY NO, THEN YOU FEEL FREE TO MAKE A MOTION.AND IF YOU DON'T, IF YOU THINK THEY NEED TO PURSUE SOMETHING ELSE, BUT IF, IF YOU'RE NOT SURE AND YOU WANT ADDITIONAL INFORMATION, THEN IT WOULD BE APPROPRIATE TO DE DEFER IT.
SO, AND THEN LET US KNOW WHAT INFORMATION THAT YOU WANT.
SO I JUST THOUGHT I WOULD THROW THAT OUT THERE SINCE OUR, WE DON'T HAVE OUR FULL MEMBERSHIP TONIGHT.
WELL, I THINK YOU KNOW WHERE I STAND.
SO I, I DON'T, THE ONLY ONE I HADN'T TALKED YET.
SO, AND THERE'S NO DO-OVERS OR, OR GOING BACK AT THIS POINT, UH, CHIP HAS INVESTED HOWEVER MUCH MONEY HE'S INVESTED FOR HIS BUSINESS, FOR HIS FUTURE.
AND, UH, AND I THINK WE'D BE DOING HIM AND ANY OTHER OWNER A DISSERVICE BY CONTINUING TO KICK THE CAN OR TO SAY WE CAN'T PASS THIS VARIANCE.
UM, MY FEELING BASED ON BEING ON THIS BOARD FOR 10 YEARS IS THAT IF WE HAVE, IF WE INCREASE IT TO 85 PARKING SPOTS, I CAN'T MAKE A GUARANTEE OF ANY SORT.
BUT BASED ON THAT, THESE, THESE AREN'T RETAIL BUSINESSES.
THEY'RE NOT DOING, THEY'RE NOT ZONED FOR THAT.
SO THE AMOUNT OF TRAFFIC GOING IN AND OUTTA THIS PARKING LOT, I DON'T SEE AS BEING SOMETHING THAT IS GOING TO HAVE A HUGE IMPACT ON THE COMMUNITY.
I AM CONCERNED ABOUT THE IMPACT THAT IT HAS ON THE COMMUNITY.
AND THAT'S WHERE MY ENCOURAGEMENT ASK OF THE TOWN WOULD BE TO DO EVERYTHING POSSIBLE TO KEEP THE PARKING ON THE BUSINESS SIDE OF THE STREET, MAYBE HAVE NO PARKING ALLOWED, UH, SIGNS OR SOME SORT TO WHERE IT'S NOT A TOTAL, YOU KNOW, EYESORE ON THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE OF THE STREET.
UM, BUT, YOU KNOW, AS, UH, MY FRIEND TO THE RIGHT HAS SAID, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE IN A, IN A BAD SPOT AND, UM, I DON'T WANT TO HURT THE RESIDENTS, BUT I ALSO DON'T WANNA HURT THE BUSINESS OWNERS.
AND, UM, AT, AT THIS POINT, I THINK ANYTIME THERE'S COMPROMISE OR MAKING DECISIONS LIKE THIS, NO ONE'S GONNA BE A HUNDRED PERCENT HAPPY.
IF WHAT I'M GATHERING RIGHT NOW, THE VOTE WOULD BE POSSIBLY TWO TO TWO FOR THE TWO THAT MAY BE AGAINST THE VARIANCE.
IS THERE ANYTHING THAT WOULD PERSUADE YOU THAT THE TOWN COULD LET YOU KNOW OR DO DIFFERENT, THAT WOULDN'T CHANGE YOUR VOTE TO YES, FOR THE VARIANCE, FOR ME, THE ONLY THING WOULD HAVE TO BE TO ADDRESS THE PARKING ON THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE.
THAT IT'S A JUST A, NOT A, I CAN'T ACCEPT THAT ONE.
UH, BECAUSE THAT TO ME GOES IT INFRINGES ON THE RIGHTS OF THE RESIDENTIAL RESIDENCE TOO.
I, I DON'T WANT TO SEE THE PROPERTY NOT DEVELOPED.
AND JUST BECAUSE WE DON'T APPROVE THIS DOESN'T MEAN IT CAN'T BE DEVELOPED.
IT MEANS THE PLANS HAVE TO CHANGE, WHICH COSTS MONEY.
AND I UNDERSTAND THAT'S AN UNDUE THING.
THAT'S PART OF THE THINGS WE LEARNED, BUT THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE ALREADY BUILT THE BUILDINGS THAT ARE TOO BIG AREN'T THE ONES PAYING FOR IT.
IT'S THE PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T BUILT YET.
WELL, THERE'S PAYING FOR IT, AND THAT'S ONE OF THE BUILDINGS EXISTS BY ONE OF THE PEOPLE.
BUT, YOU KNOW, UH, THEY, THEY WOULD HAVE TO BE, I MEAN, I, I, I, I AGREE, BUT IT CAN BE DEVELOPED.
IT JUST HAS TO BE DEVELOPED DIFFERENTLY.
I STILL, IF THERE COULD FIND A WAY TO, TO DO SOMETHING TO ADDRESS THE PARKING, I MIGHT WOULD CONSIDER IT, BUT I CAN'T.
WELL, UH, ALONG THE SAME LINES I ASKED ABOUT THE, UH, PEAK TIME.
UH, I THINK IF IT'S MORE THAN WHAT WE EXPECT, IT'S GOING TO INFRINGE ON THE HOMEOWNER'S, UH, RIGHTS AS WELL.
UH, IF WE CAN ADDRESS THAT, I WOULD BE WILLING TO VOTE YES AS FAR AS, UH, MAKING SURE THAT THEY'RE OKAY.
IF IT TURNS OUT THAT DURING PEAK TIME IT, IT'S MORE THAN WHAT WE EXPECT.
SO JAMIE, WHAT? I WAS JUST GONNA ASK A QUESTION.
I, I WAS JUST GONNA ASK IF WE COULD PULL THE PICTURE BACK UP AND I WAS JUST GONNA MAKE, I MEANT TO SEE IF THERE'S SOMETHING THERE.
WHAT WERE YOU GONNA, SOMEBODY MENTIONED ABOUT PARKING
[01:20:01]
ONLY ON THE BUSINESS SIDE.ISN'T THAT RIGHT, JAMIE? WELL, THEN WE HAVE THE, THE ABILITY TO, AS A BOARD, WE HAVE, THEY'RE ASKING FOR US TO CHANGE THE RATIO FROM ONE TO 300 TO ONE TO 331, I BELIEVE.
SO WE CAN CHANGE THE RATIO TO FIT SEVEN SPOTS.
I MEAN, IF WE'RE LOOKING AT 85 WITH THE RETRIP LOT PLUS SEVEN, YOU'RE LOOKING AT 92.
IF WE CHANGE THE RATIO TO MEET THAT, THEN I THINK WE'RE, WE'RE FINE.
IF YOU TAKE SIX ON THIS SIDE AND THERE, BECAUSE OF RETRIP, THAT ONLY LEAVES YOU TWO MORE.
I MEAN, BUT AGAIN, THAT'S, YEAH, WE DON'T, AND THAT'S IS, YEAH.
SO WHAT'S THAT? NO, I THAT I WOULD BE GOOD IF YOU COULD MAKE THAT ADJUSTMENT.
I WONDER IF WE NEED TO TABLE THIS AND HAVE THE, THE TOWN LOOK TO SEE, JUST TO CONFIRM THE PARKING CAN IS GONNA, CAN FIT 85 AND WITH THOSE SEVEN ON THE BUSINESS SIDE WOULD MEET THE CRITERIA.
WHAT, WHAT ADJUSTMENTS WOULD WE HAVE TO HAVE? IS IT 33, 3333 IS AT THREE 15 OR WHATEVER? MM-HMM.
I MIGHT, WOULD YOU BE GO THERE? OKAY.
WELL CAN HAVE A QUESTION THAT, YEAH.
UM, WHAT IF WE MADE THAT A CONDITION, LIKE WHAT IF WE MADE THAT A CONDITION OF THIS RIGHT.
AS OPPOSED TO, HERE YOU GO FIND THIS OUT AND COME BACK.
WE, WE DO THAT A LOT WHERE WE JUST MAKE A CONDITION OF THE VARIANCE.
AND SO I, I CAN MAKE AN AMENDMENT TO NO, UH, ONLY BUSINESS SIDE PARKING, AND THEN WE REALLY ONLY HAVE TO MAKE A VARIANCE FOR TWO.
YOU SEE WHAT I'M SAYING? BECAUSE SIX OF THOSE, ASSUMING, YOU KNOW, WE'RE ALL MATHED OUT CORRECTLY, THAT 85 ARE IN, IN, IN THE, UM, IN THE FACILITY.
AND THEN YOU'VE GOT, UH, THAT ONLY LEAVES YOU, THAT REDUCES SIX ON THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE, LEAVES YOU TWO MORE.
SO WE'RE REALLY ONLY MAKING A VARIANCE FOR TWO BECAUSE I DON'T KNOW THAT I NECESSARILY WANT TO, YOU KNOW, JUST TO ALLEVIATE THE SAME PROBLEM THAT WE WOULD HAVE ON THE RESIDENTIAL SIDE.
I DON'T WANT TO GO TWO MORE UP ABOVE OVER THERE.
SO IF, IF, WOULD YOU BE OKAY WITH THAT? IF WE, IF I MADE AN AMENDMENT TO ONLY, ONLY BUSINESS SIDE PARKING, A CONDITION OF IT DOES NEED TO MEET THAT 85, BUT WE'RE MAKING A VARIANCE OF REMOVING THOSE TWO.
YEAH, I PROBABLY, I COULD GO WITH THAT.
WHAT ABOUT YOU FLOYD? UH, I COULD GO WITH THAT AS WELL.
SO WE ALREADY HAVE ONE AMENDMENT FOR THE MAIN NO, I PUT THAT IN PART.
CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE, ALRIGHT, YEAH.
IS IT JAMIE, IS IT NORMAL FOR US TO APPROVE SOMETHING WITH A ENDING? ANYTHING LIKE THAT? OR IS IT SOMETHING THAT NEEDS TO BE TABLED AND LOOKED AT AND BROUGHT BACK FOR US TO VIEW? IT'S, IT'S UP TO, YOU WANNA MAKE SURE YOU HAVE ENOUGH INFORMATION TO BE COMFORTABLE.
UM, YOU HAVE HAD A PROFESSIONAL ENGINEER SAY THAT 85 SPACES WILL FIT.
IF YOU HAVE A CONDITION THAT'S YOUR CONDITION, THEY CAN'T MEET THAT.
THEY MIGHT COME BACK AND SAY, ASK TO REVISE IT.
IF FOR SOME REASON THEY CAN'T GET THAT.
UM, THE ON STREET PARKING, UM, I'LL JUST SAY ON STREET PARKING IS ALLOWED UNLESS IT'S PROHIBITED.
AND IT, AND THERE ARE WAYS, LIKE THE TOWN ENGINEER CAN POST CERTAIN SIDES OF THE STREET AS PROHIBITED.
SO YOU'LL BE SENDING A MESSAGE TO THE TOWN ENGINEER TO SAY, WILL YOU POST ON THE WEST SIDE OF THE ROAD? NO, NO PARKING.
AND THAT'S EVEN FOR THE RESIDENCE AS WELL.
UM, MR. BORA HAPPENS TO OWN THOSE LOTS.
HE'S TRYING TO SELL THOSE LOTS.
SO MAYBE HE WOULD BE AGREEABLE TO THAT CONDITION.
SO WE MAY WANNA MAKE, SEE IF THE APPLICANT IS AGREEABLE, UM, THE REPRESENTATIVE OF MR. MR. BORA HERE, HERE TONIGHT WITH, WITH THAT CONDITION, JUST SO WE CAN GET THAT IN THE RECORD.
WHICH I THINK THAT'S MR. SO IF WE ARE SAYING THAT WE WON'T COUNT THE PARKING ACROSS THE STREET IN FRONT OF THE RESIDENTIAL, WE WON'T COUNT THAT WE'RE SAYING NO ONE CAN PARK THERE.
THAT'S WHAT YOU, I THOUGHT YOU JUST SAID.
SO EITHER YOU CAN OR YOU CAN'T.
BUT I'M SAYING COUNT IT FOR THE NUMBER FOR, I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT SOMEONE PARKS THERE.
I MEAN, I DON'T WANT THE RESIDENTS NOT TO BE ABLE TO PARK IN FRONT OF THEIR THING.
I DON'T BELIEVE IT SHOULD COUNT FOR A BUSINESS.
I JUST, I JUST BALANCING BECAUSE IF YOU TRUCTURE YOUR MOTION THAT WAY, THAT'S FINE.
BUT WE, YOU CAN'T, IT, IT'S JUST NOT ALL WE'RE SAYING IS ONLY THE SEVEN ON THE, ON THE EAST SIDE OF GRAND STEEPLE.
[01:25:01]
CONSIDERED PART OF THE PARKING FOR THE RE FOR THE BUSINESSES.I THINK WHAT JA, JAMIE'S SAYING THOUGH IS IF JOHN DOE COMES TO THE BUSINESS AND PARKS OVER THERE, THERE'S NO WELL THERE THAT, THAT HAPPENS.
I MEAN, MY NEIGHBORS FILL UP MY WHOLE DRIVEWAY SOMETIMES.
NOT DRIVEWAY, BUT MY WHOLE RIGHT.
SO WE'RE, BUT THAT'S, BUT IT'S, WE ARE NOT SAYING THE BUSINESS CAN COUNT THIS AS THEY'RE PARKING.
I WANNA MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE SETTING THAT PRECEDENT.
IT'S, IT'S NOT SAYING PEOPLE CAN'T PARK THERE IF IT GETS BUSY.
I MEAN, I THINK THAT'S, I CAN WORD IT.
IT'S SAYING THAT, DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? I CAN WORD IT.
SO IT'D BE CHANGING FIVE TO SAY THE SEVEN ON THE EAST SIDE.
CAN YOU PULL THAT PICTURE BACK UP, JAMIE? HOPE THAT HELPS.
CAN YOU PULL THAT PICTURE BACK UP? UH, WITH THE, WITH THE LITTLE GREEN? YEAH.
OKAY, I SEE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING.
YEAH, IT'S ALL IN FRONT OF THE LIGHTS.
AN AMENDMENT TO MAKE A CONDITION THAT, UM, THAT IS THE 85 SPOTS IS DOABLE WITH, UH, PER THE TOWN'S AGREEMENT, WHATEVER, UM, AS WELL AS ONLY COUNTING THE SEVEN ON THE EAST SIDE FOR STREET PARKING FOR A TOTAL OF 99 0 2.
THAT MEANS WE ONLY NEED APPEARANCE.
I'M GONNA DO SOME MATH REAL QUICK.
SO JAMIE, THAT CHANGES OUR RATIO.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU NEED THIS IN THE MOTION ANYWHERE TO ONE SPOT PER 305 SQUARE FEET, SO, OKAY.
SO WITH THE AMENDMENTS, I WOULD WANT TO CALL FOR A VOTE ON THE MOTION OR WE'VE ALREADY, YOU YOU VOTE ON THE AMENDMENT.
SO LET'S VOTE ON THE AMENDMENT TO THE MOTION.
SO MAY I HAVE A MOTION FIRST FOR, OH, SO I MADE THE AMENDMENT.
SO CAN I GET A SECOND? THE AMENDMENT? I SECOND IT.
SO NOW WITH THE AMENDED, UM, MOTION.
UH, IS THAT THE MAIN MOTION? BECAUSE IF THAT'S THE MAIN MOTION YOU'RE DONE.
NO, NO, WE, WE AMENDED THE MOTION TO, TO INCLUDE THAT.
DID SOMEBODY EVER MAKE THAT THE ORIGINAL MOTION? LYNETTE? YES, SOMEBODY DID.
ALRIGHT, SO HAVE WE ALREADY SECONDED TWO? YES.
SO NOW LET'S HAVE A VOTE ON THE MAIN MOTION.
[6.b Case #252225 – 9861 & 9841 East Holmes Road – Appeal of a Staff Decision related to the type and height of fencing allowed for a residential property with commercial farming activities (i.e. - raising of goats)]
WE'RE NOW GONNA MOVE ON TO CASE NUMBER TWO.SO THE PROPERTY OWNERS OF 98, 61 AND 98 41 EAST HOMES ROAD ARE JOINTLY REQUESTING AN APPEAL OF A STAFF INTERPRETATION OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE RELATED TO THE TYPE AND HEIGHT OF FENCING.
ALLOWED FURTHER PROPERTIES LOCATED ON THE SOUTH SIDE OF EAST HOMES ROAD.
SO BOTH PROPERTIES HAVE EXISTING SINGLE FAMILY DWELLINGS.
THE HOUSE ON 98 61 EAST HOMES ROAD WAS BUILT IN 1992 WHILE THE HOUSE ON 98 41 EAST HOMES ROAD WAS BUILT IN 1952.
THE TOTAL COMBINED ACREAGE IS APPROXIMATELY 46.9 ACRES AND IT IS BEING USED FOR RESIDENTIAL AND AGRICULTURAL PURPOSES.
BOTH PROPERTIES ARE ZONED FAR FOREST AGRICULTURE, RESIDENTIAL, AND ARE SURROUNDED BY FAR ZONE PROPERTIES.
SO BESIDES THE PRINCIPAL DWELLINGS, ACCESSORY STRUCTURES ARE PRESENT INCLUDING BARNS STABLE, UH, SHEDS, UTILITY BUILDINGS, AND DETACHED, UH, RESIDENTIAL GARAGE.
AS YOU CAN SEE ON THE TOP LEFT,
[01:30:05]
THE FRONT YARD HAS AN EXISTING WOODEN SPLIT RAIL FENCE.SO THE OWNERS SAY, UH, DUE TO THE DESIGN OF THIS FENCE, THE ANIMALS ARE ABLE TO CLIMB OVER AND SOME HAVE BEEN HIT BY VEHICLES ON EAST HOMES ROAD.
SO THE LOTS ARE SEPARATED BY A FENCE, BUT THE ANIMALS CAN GO, UH, FREELY BETWEEN THE PROPERTIES.
SO EARLY THIS YEAR, THE OWNERS SUBMITTED A FENCE PERMIT FOR AN EIGHT FOOT METAL FENCE TO SECURE THE FARM ANIMALS.
TOWN STAFF INITIALLY ADVISED THEM TO APPLY FOR A VARIANCE, BUT INSTEAD OF DOING SO, THE OWNERS EXPERIMENTED WITH A TEMPORARY SIX FOOT FENCE.
IN EARLY AUGUST, THE OWNERS CONTACTED STAFF TO SAY THEIR ANIMALS STILL MANAGE TO CLIMB OVER THE SIX FOOT FENCE, SO THEY NEED A TALLER FENCE.
ON AUGUST 29TH, TOWN STAFF INFORMED THE OWNERS THE ZONING ORDINANCE ONLY ALLOWS A MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF SIX FEET FOR RESIDENTIAL FENCES.
THE OWNERS BELIEVE THE STAFF IS NOT CORRECTLY INTERPRETING THE ZONING ORDINANCE, PARTICULARLY IN CLASSIFYING THE USE OF THEIR PROPERTIES AS AN ACTIVE FARM OPERATION.
THEY STATED IN THEIR APPEAL, UH, BOTH PROPERTIES COLLECTIVELY FUNCTION AS A FARM WITH A VARIETY OF LIVESTOCK SUCH AS HORSES, LAMBS, GOATS AND COWS.
SO THE NON-RESIDENTIAL USES OF, OF THE PROPERTY WOULD ALLOW THEM FOR AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE PER THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
THEY ALSO STATED THE FENCE DESIGN IS COMPATIBLE WITH THE RURAL CAR CHARACTER OF THE C COMMUNITY.
UM, AND IT'LL BE SIMILAR WITH THE OTHER FENCES IN THE AREA SUCH AS THE FRONT YARD FENCE AT 51 10 REYNOLDS ROAD SHOWN ON THE BOTTOM SCREEN.
SO IN REVIEWING FENCE PERMITS, THE TOWN STAFF LOOKS TO SECTION 1 51 0.006 OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE ASSET, THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT ALLOWED BASED ON THE PROPERTIES ZONING AND USE CLASSIFICATION.
SO FOR FAR AND LARGE LARGE RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES, FENCES ARE LIMITED TO A MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF SIX FEET.
SO SHOWN IN RED WHILE, UH, FENCES FOR NON-RESIDENTIAL AND MIXED USES CAN BE UP TO A MAXIMUM HEIGHT OF EIGHT FEET.
SO NO STAFF RECOMMENDATIONS PROVIDED AS THIS IS AN APPEAL.
THE BCA SHOULD D UH, DETERMINE IF STAFF ACTED IN ERROR OR HAS ACTED IN AN ARBITRARY MANNER.
AND IT'S AUGUST 29TH DECISION THAT BOTH PROPERTIES ARE BEING USED FOR RESIDENTIAL PURPOSES.
SO THE MAXIMUM HEIGHT ALLOWED FOR THE FRONT YARD FENCE IS SIX FEET.
SO THE VCA CAN ADD CONDITIONS OF APPROVAL IN ITS MOTION IF IT FINDS THE GROUNDS EXIST TO OVERTURN THE, THE DECISION OF THE STAFF TO MINIMIZE ADVERSE IMPACTS TO THE AREA.
SO AN EXAMPLE MOTION IS ON YOUR SCREEN BASED ON THE APPLICANT'S REQUEST PASS.
SO AS NOTED IN THE STAFF REPORT, IF THE STAFF'S DECISION IS AFFIRMED, THE FENCE PERMIT WILL BE UPDATED TO INDICATE A SIX FOOT FRONT YARD FENCE.
OR THE APPLICANTS MAY CHOOSE TO WITHDRAW THEIR FENCE APPLICATION ENTIRELY.
ON THE OTHER HAND, SHOULD THE BCA OVERRULE THE STAFF'S DECISION, THEN DEFENSE PERMIT FOR AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE WILL BE APPROVED AND A SEPARATE FENCE PERMIT 4 98 41 EAST HOMES ROAD WILL ALSO NEED TO BE SUBMITTED.
SO THIS END STAFF PRESENTATION, AND I'M AVAILABLE FOR QUESTIONS.
SO JUST TO CLARIFY, IF WE THINK THE STAFF ACTED CORRECTLY, THEN THERE'S NO EIGHT FOOT FENCE.
YES, IT WILL IN, IT WILL BE AN A SIX FOOT FENCE, BUT THEN THEY COULD COME BACK AND ASK FOR AN APPEAL TO ALLOW AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE, COULDN'T THEY? 'CAUSE I MEAN, MOST OF THE TIME WHEN WE GET FENCE QUESTIONS HERE, IT'S, YOU KNOW, UH, THE, MY PROPERTY LINE DECREASES X NUMBER OF FEET, SO I WANT TO STAIR STEP MY FENCE FROM SIX FEET TO EIGHT FEET.
UM, AND SO IT'S JUST AN APPEAL OF THE ZONING ORDINANCE.
THIS CASE, THEY'RE NOT ASKING FOR AN APPEAL OF A SIX FOOT FENCE TO BE EIGHT FEET TALL.
THEY'RE ASKING FOR US TO SAY WHETHER THE DECISION YOU MADE WAS AN ERROR OR NOT.
SO IF WE SAY NO, WE DON'T THINK THAT YOUR DECISION WAS AN ERROR, COULD THEY THEN COME BACK AND SAY, HEY, WE'D LIKE A, A VARIANCE THAT ALLOWS AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE?
[01:35:01]
THEY COULD AND THEY ACTUALLY STARTED DOWN THE VARIANCE PATH AND OKAY.AND, UM, I, I INTERCEDED 'CAUSE I, I, WE WERE ANALYZING THE VARIANCE REQUEST AND WE WERE HARD PRESSED TO FIND PHYSICAL HARDSHIPS.
AND SO WE WERE CONCERNED THAT WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THIS, THIS VARIANCE.
UM, AND SO WE SUGGESTED THAT THEY CHANGE THEIR REQUEST TO AN APPEAL KINDA LIKE A FRIENDLY APPEAL.
YEAH, BECAUSE OUR ORDINANCE IS, BUT WHEN IT COMES TO AGRIBUSINESSES, IT'S NOT SUPER CLEAR, UM, ABOUT, ABOUT WHETHER IT'S COMMERCIAL OR RESIDENTIAL.
WE DO HAVE A HOUSE HERE, TWO HOUSES, AND ONE OF 'EM IS NOT CLASSIFIED BY THE ASSESSOR AS A FARM, ALTHOUGH CLEARLY THEY'RE BOTH TIED UP IN THIS, THIS FARMING OPERATION.
SO THE RECORD WAS SUFFICIENT ENOUGH WHERE WE COULDN'T, WE DIDN'T FEEL COMFORTABLE APPROVING IT ADMINISTRATIVELY, WE WERE REALLY STRUGGLING WITH THE VARIANCE CRITERIA.
SO WE, WE WERE, WE WERE CONCERNED THAT THERE MAY BE NO, SO WE WANTED, WE THOUGHT THE BEST CHANCE FOR THEM WOULD BE TO HAVE THIS APPEAL.
I WAS JUST CURIOUS AS THE PROCESS.
SO, SO THAT'S, THAT'S HOW WE GOT HERE.
AND THERE IS A FENCE LIKE THIS.
WELL THAT WAS MY NEXT QUESTION IS IN THE, IN THE READING IT SAID THAT THERE WAS ANOTHER FENCE THAT WAS EIGHT FEET TALL THAT WAS SIMILAR TO THIS ONE.
Y'ALL HAD ASKED FOR PICTURES, BUT I NEVER SAW PICTURES.
UM, THAT I THINK THE ONLY PICTURE I SAW WAS IS THIS, I I THOUGHT THIS WAS LIKE THE PROPOSED PICTURE.
IS THIS ONE THE ACTUAL PICTURE THAT'S THERE? YES.
AND THIS IS THE EIGHT FOOT FENCE.
I HAVE A QUESTION FOR CLARITY.
WHEN I'M LOOKING AT THE, THE, THE RULES FOR THE TOWN, I DON'T SEE AGRICULTURE ON THERE.
AND AT MOST, GROWING UP ON A FARM, WE HAD A FARM AND IT WAS AGRICULTURE.
YOU HAD A HOUSE, YOU LIVED THERE WITH ANIMALS.
AND THAT'S, I FEEL LIKE WHAT WE HAVE HERE.
SO IT'S, I DON'T KNOW WHAT MIXED USE IS CONSIDERED.
SO
BUT I MEAN, YOU DON'T HAVE A, A THING THAT WOULD CONSIDER AGRICULTURE.
THAT, THAT LINE THAT, THAT MARIA HAS HIGHLIGHTED IS, WAS OUR ATTEMPT TO TRY TO ADDRESS AGRICULTURE.
WE WERE NOTICING THAT FENCES ALONG SHEA ROAD BRACE STATION ROAD, UH, WANTED LARGER FENCES THAN FOUR FEET.
AND THAT DIDN'T MAKE SENSE TO TRY TO IMPOSE A FOUR FOOT STANDARD WHEN THEY HAD HORSES.
UH, SO MOST, MOST OF OUR AGRICULTURAL USES OCCUR IN THESE ZONING DISTRICTS, BUT NOT ALL.
UH, YOU AGRICULTURE'S ALLOWED IN ALL ZONING DISTRICTS.
WE'VE GOT R ONE ZONE PROPERTIES THAT HAVE HORSES.
AND UM, SO IT, IT, IT COULD BE THAT THE, THE ZONING ORDINANCE NEEDS, UH, AN ADJUSTMENT TO BETTER ADDRESS USES RATHER THAN THE, THE ZONING DISTRICTS.
CAN YOU GO BACK TO THE PICTURE OF THE TWO LOTS? THERE WAS ANOTHER ONE WHERE IT'S LIKE, SHOWS THE GRAPH.
SO IF THIS WAS JUST ONE BIG LOT, WOULD WE STILL BE HAVING THE SAME DISCUSSION OR WOULD THEY BE ALLOWED AN EIGHT FOOT FENCE? OH, I THINK OURS, IT STILL WOULD BE AC IF IT WAS ALL ONE BIG LOT.
ZONE FARM STILL ZONED FARI THINK WE'RE STILL SAYING IT'S A SIX FOOT FENCE BECAUSE THAT'S THE MAXIMUM THAT'S ALLOWED IN THAT TABLE EXCEPT FOR COMMERCIAL.
UM, IF THIS WAS A NON-RESIDENTIAL MIXED USE, NOT NECESSARILY A HOUSE, BUT MAYBE THAT WAS A A, A FARM, UH, MAYBE THIS WAS LIKE RUSSELL'S FARM SUPPLY, EIGHT, EIGHT FEET, UH, WOULD BE ALLOWED.
'CAUSE THAT'S A NON RE CLEARLY A NON-RESIDENTIAL LINE.
BUT AS Y'ALL KNOW, WITH A AGRIBUSINESSES, SOMETIMES YOU START BLURRING THE LINE BETWEEN, UM, COMMERCIAL AND AND RESIDENTIAL.
UM, BUT THAT, THAT WAS THE BEST BOX THAT WE COULD FIT IT IN IS, UH, RESIDENTIAL AND HAD TROUBLE CHECKING THE NON-RESIDENTIAL BOX.
SO IF I ASKED YOU TO DEFINE A MIXED USE, HOW WOULD YOU DEFINE IT RIGHT NOW? UM, THERE'RE LIKE TWO DIFFERENT DEFINITIONS.
THERE'S LIKE THE, THE ONE WHEN YOU SEE IN THE DAILY, IAN BARTLETT HAS A MIXED USE DEVELOPMENT.
THEY DON'T, THEY MEAN LIKE RESIDENTIAL HERE.
AND THEN THERE'S LIKE AN OFFICE BUILDING NEXT DOOR.
AND SO THEY'RE SAYING THESE, THESE ARE LIKE TWO RESIDENTIAL APPROXIMATE RESIDENTIAL USES, BUT THEY'RE NOT LIKE VERTICALLY INTEGRATED.
SO, BUT WHEN WE SAY LIKE SHILLING FARMS OR ALIA COMMONS, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT RESIDENTIAL OVER NON-RESIDENTIAL OR MAYBE, UH, MAYBE, UH, MAYBE ON THE SAME BLOCK, MAYBE RESIDENTIAL AND NON-RESIDENTIAL MIXED IN.
UM, MAYBE AT LIKE IN MORRISON VILLAGE, WHICH HASN'T BEEN BUILT YET BY, BY BOLE, UM, IT'S, IT'S LIKE ALL INTEGRATED IN TOGETHER AND MAYBE EVEN LIKE SHAKEN UP, UH, AND, AND
[01:40:01]
MIXED TOGETHER.THAT'S, THAT'S MIXED USE IN A, FROM A MORE OF AN URBAN PLANNING SENSE.
BUT, UM, SOMETIMES, SOMETIMES FOLKS USE THAT OTHER TERM TO REFLECT, REFLECT A LOT OF USES ON, ON IN A, IN A DEVELOPMENT.
UH, BUT THAT'S WHAT WE MEAN HERE IS LIKE, LIKE BOLD DEVELOPMENT, LIKE SHILLING FARMS OR MM-HMM
WE DON'T MEAN JUST PROXIMATE MIXED USE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE STAFF? THE FENCE THAT'S JUST DOWN THE STREET, IT MATCHES THIS, WHAT THEY'RE WANTING TO DO.
HOW DID IT GET APPROVED? IT WAS DEVELOPED IN THE COUNTY AND ANNEXED INTO TO CARTERVILLE.
I BELIEVE IT WAS MIKE MILLER'S HOUSE, UH, AT ONE, ONE TIME.
BUT IT WAS UNINCORPORATED SH COUNTY ENGINE AREA.
YEAH, I KNOW WHERE WE'RE TALKING ABOUT NOW.
DEVELOPED IN 2011 OR ANNEXED INTO TWO, 2011.
SO THE ONLY HARDSHIP THAT I CAN SEE IS THE FACT THAT THEIR ANIMALS ARE AT RISK AND AS WELL AS PADE PEOPLE THAT ARE DRIVING DOWN THE STREET ARE AT RISK.
LET'S GIVE THE APPLICANT A SECOND TO OKAY.
YOU'RE GETTING, YOU'RE GETTING AHEAD OF THE GAME.
WOULD THE APPLICANT LIKE TO PLEASE STATE YOUR NAME? MOHAMED UD.
UH, THANK YOU GUYS FOR THE TIME AND UH, UH, HAVING US, THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I DO SOMETHING LIKE THIS, SO I DON'T REALLY KNOW WHICH WAY TO GO ABOUT IT.
BUT, UH, THE TRUTH IS I WATCH TOO MUCH YELLOWSTONE TRYING TO LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM.
AND SO I'M TRYING TO BE, I'M A FULL-TIME BUSINESSMAN IN THIS TOWN AND I'M TRYING TO BE PART-TIME COWBOY.
UM, I HAVE SOME CRAZY HEIFERS, SOME CRAZY, UH, COWS AND, UH, GOATS.
SO THEY'RE ALWAYS, IT'S ALWAYS GREENER ON THE OTHER SIDE.
SO THE PROBLEM THAT I'VE RAN INTO IS, UM, THEY KEEP GETTING OUT.
SO I'VE TRIED A TEMPORARY SIX FOOT FENCE.
UM, BUT IF YOU KNOW, OVER THERE THERE'S A LOT OF TREES, EVERY TIME THE STORMS, WE LOSE ELECTRICITY, SOMETHING'S ALWAYS HAPPENING.
SO, UH, MY, MY FARMS UNDER MY BUSINESS M AND I SUPPLIERS.
AND SO I, I'M STARTING A FARM BUSINESS FOR SELLING BEEF AND, AND LAMB AND HAY AND, AND VEGETABLES AND FRUITS AND WHATNOT.
UH, BUT I CAN'T PROCEED BECAUSE I LOST A LOT OF ANIMALS FROM A CAR WRECK ACTUALLY.
SO THAT'S MY BIGGEST, UH, PROBLEM IS FIRST FOR THE SAFETY OF THE PEOPLE, BUT ALSO FOR THE SAFETY OF MY ANIMALS.
HONESTLY, I DON'T WANNA KEEP GOING THROUGH THIS.
YOU KNOW, I LOST 20, 20 LIMBS, 20 GOATS AT ONE POINT.
AND I THINK I DIDN'T GET THE REPORT FROM CARVILLE, BUT CARVILLE HAS THIS ON, ON THEIR FILE.
THANK GOD THE THE GUY THAT WAS INVOLVED IS SAFE.
BUT, UM, THIS IS THE PROBLEM THAT I'M DEALING WITH.
AND YOU CAN SEE IN SOME OF THOSE PICTURES, I HAVE A LOT OF PASTURES AND A LOT OF GATES TO TRY TO SET UP THEM FROM, PREVENTING THEM FROM COMING TO THE STREET.
UM, AND I MEAN, THEY'RE PROBABLY 200 FEET AWAY FROM THE STREET, 300 FEET AWAY FROM THE STREET AND THIS, THEY STILL FIND A WAY.
COWS STILL FIND A WAY TO GET TO OTHER SIDE.
UM, BUT MY ANIMALS GOT CUT, CUT UP TRYING TO GET OVER IT.
SO I DON'T WANT SOMEBODY DRIVE PAST MY HOUSE AND SEE A COW AND PALED ON THE FENCE.
SO THAT'S MY BIGGEST THING IS SAFETY ON HOMES.
THERE'S NO REALLY NO STOP, UH, STOP SIGNS.
SO PEOPLE ARE FLYING THERE FROM MEMPHIS, THERE'S NO, UH, SLOW DOWN, UH, YIELDING, ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
AND THEN I HAVE A NEIGHBORHOOD, MY NEIGHBORS ARE VERY NICE PEOPLE, SO THEY ALWAYS WORK WITH ME.
THEY HELP ME GET MY ANIMALS BACK.
UM, BUT I ALSO DON'T WANT TO KEEP MY ANIMALS IN THEIR YARD AT ONE O'CLOCK IN THE MORNING.
I CHASE 'EM FOR 12, 13 HOURS A DAY.
UM, SO THAT'S THE BIGGEST THING.
THAT'S WHY WE WANNA GET EIGHT FOOT FENCE.
I KNOW THIS IS NOT COMMON IN CARVILLE, ALTHOUGH THERE IS A FEW HOUSES THAT I'VE DRIVEN AROUND AND SEEN SOME, UH, MOST OF 'EM DON'T EVEN, A COUPLE OF 'EM DON'T EVEN HAVE ANIMALS.
AND SO I DON'T WANNA BE THIS GUY ASKING FOR A SPECIAL REQUEST.
BUT IT'S JUST, IT'S JUST FOR THE ANIMALS AND THE SAFETY OF THE PUBLIC.
SO WE TRIED FOUR FOOT, WHICH WE HAVE, WE TRIED SIX FOOT.
AND SO IT'S LIKE THE ONLY OPTION I HAVE NOW IS THE EIGHT FOOT FENCE.
AND EVEN ON TOP OF THAT WE HAVE MULTIPLE PASTURES, LIKE I SAID, AND UM, ELECTRIC WIRE.
SO WE'RE STILL GONNA ADD MORE.
JUST WE WANT TO JUST LOOK OUT FOR AS MUCH SAFETY AS POSSIBLE AND TRY TO LIVE THE AMERICAN DREAM AND SE SELL SOME BEEF, YOU KNOW,
UH, WELL YOU PARTLY ANSWERED ONE OF MY QUESTIONS I WAS GONNA ASK, IS IT THE GOATS THAT ARE MOSTLY DUMPING GOATS OR LEAPERS? I KNOW.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? I DO.
UM, SO HOW DO WE KNOW EIGHT FOOT'S GONNA DO IT? IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'VE GOT THE NBA OF GOATS.
SO MAN, UH, I'VE TRIED SO MANY THINGS AND UH, GOATS FIND A WAY AND COWS, COWS CAN ACTUALLY GET OVER FIVE OR SIX FOOT.
[01:45:01]
LIKE, ESPECIALLY IF YOU HAVE A BULL AND HE'S SEPARATED FROM THE, FROM THE COWS.UM, THAT'S ONE THING IS THAT THEY WILL FIND A WAY THEY SOMETIMES THEY CAN'T NECESSARILY JUMP.
AND SO THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING.
I DON'T WANT THEM IMPALED ON THE STREET AND A COW IS JUST HANGING ON THE, ON THE FENCE.
UM, AND THE OTHER THING, THE HORSES I'VE, WITH THE SIX FOOT FENCE I'VE TRIED, THEY CUT THEIR NECKS 'CAUSE THEY'RE REACHING OVER THE FENCE AND SO THE EIGHT FOOT FENCE IS HIGH ENOUGH TO WHERE THEY CAN'T EVEN REACH.
SO IF THEY CAN'T EVEN GET THEIR HEAD ABOVE IT, IT'S ALMOST LIKE THEY, THEY'RE DEFEATED, YOU KNOW? SO WITH THE FOUR FOOT FENCE, THEY GET THEIR, THEIR BODIES ABOVE IT, SIX FOOT FENCE, THEY CAN GET PART OF THEIR BODIES ABOVE IT.
AND SO THAT'S LIKE FOR THE ANIMALS, THAT'S CONFERENCE, I CAN GET OVER THIS THING, SO LET ME TRY.
AND WHEN THEY TRIED, WHEN THEY GET HURT OR THEY GET OUT AND THEN A CAR HITS EM.
SO WITH THE EIGHT FOOT FENCE, THEY CAN'T REACH IT ENOUGH TO, TO EVEN ATTEMPT TO, TO KIND OF LEAP OVER IT.
AND THE GOATS DEFINITELY CAN'T GET GOATS CAN'T GET OVER AN EIGHT FOOT.
IF WE GOT A EIGHT, IF A GOAT CAN GET OVER EIGHT FOOT FENCE, I'M GONNA HAVE TO GET RID OF THAT.
ALRIGHT, ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR THE APPLICANT? OKAY, THANK YOU SIR.
UM, AND WE HAVE A MOTION, DO YOU MIND BRINGING THE MOTION SLIDE UP? PERFECT.
MOTION TO APPROVE AS WRITTEN ON SCREEN.
IS THAT THE SAMPLE ONE TO TOOK? YES.
THE EXAMPLE TO OVERTURN THE STAFF.
UH, MOTION TO OVERTURN STAFF DECISION.
YOU KNOW, WHEN, WHEN I THINK OF THIS, I MEAN THE DIFFERENCE HERE OF MIXED USE IS LITERALLY BUSINESS ON BOTTOM, LIVING ON TOP VERSUS IT'S STILL BUSINESS IN THE SAME LAND.
UH, I DON'T KNOW W WHY IT IS THIS, WE PROBABLY HAVEN'T THOUGHT OF THAT IN, UH, THE TOWN BECAUSE WE HAVEN'T REALLY ADDRESS, I DIDN'T THINK WE COULD ACTUALLY EVEN HAVE ROOSTERS IN THERE TOWN OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT.
BUT I GUESS I'M LEARNING THINGS.
UH, SO I MEAN, TO ME THERE IS A, A UNDUE HINDRANCE IN THE FACT THAT IT COULD BE A SAFETY THING, NOT ONLY, UH, FOR PEOPLE DRIVING DOWN HOMES ROAD, BUT ALSO OF COURSE HIS INVESTMENT IN HIS BUSINESS WITH LIVESTOCK.
AND THERE ARE FENCES THAT MEET THAT SAME CRITERIA JUST DOWN THE STREET.
UH, I ALMOST WISH THAT THERE WAS A CONTINGENT.
SO MAYBE THIS IS A REASON TO UPDATE SOME OF THESE, UH, RULES TO ACTUALLY TAKE AGRICULTURE INTO PLAY WITH THAT.
UH, BECAUSE I MEAN, THIS IS A LOT BETTER IDEA THAN HAVING A BARBED WIRE.
THAT'S WHAT I GREW UP WITH, BY THE WAY.
I GREW UP ON A FARM IN THE COUNTRY AND WE HAD BARBED WIRE AND THAT WOULD NOT BE PRETTY AND NOT GOOD
SO, UM, SO I DON'T LIKE THE IDEA OF GOING AGAINST WHAT THE TOWN IS SAYING BECAUSE I KNOW THAT THEY'RE VERY STRICTLY GOING ON THE GUIDELINES THAT ARE THERE, BUT THERE IS A HARDSHIP AND AN EXCEPTION TO THE FACT THAT THERE IS OTHER FENCES THAT MEET THAT CRITERIA.
UM, I, I HONESTLY, I KNOW I'M A CITY BOY, UM, SO I, YOU KNOW, MY PARENTS LIVE ON A, ON A FARM AND, AND, AND, YOU KNOW, BUT THEY ONLY HAVE, YOU KNOW, ONE, ONE ANIMAL AND IT'S, IT'S COWS AND BULLS, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S, AND IT'S, UH, SO IT'S EITHER THE ELECTRIC FENCE HAS TURNED ALL THE WAY UP
SO THEY, THEY, YOU KNOW, THAT'S ALL THEY HAVE AND IT'S, AND IT'S, YOU KNOW, UM, I'M INCLINED TO SAY YES BECAUSE IT'S A, IT'S NOT AN OPAQUE FENCE, RIGHT.
IT'S NOT A, YOU KNOW, WOODEN, IT'S, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE GO BY WHAT, 75% TRANSPARENT MOST TIME OR SOMETHING LIKE, OR, YOU KNOW, AND, UM, YOU KNOW, IF IT'S GOING TO BE SAFER FOR, UH, TRANSPORTATION, EXCUSE ME, UM, THE ROAD AS WELL AS SAFER FOR HIS ANIMALS, I, I'M INCLINED TO SAY, SAY YES STRICTLY, MAINLY BECAUSE IT'S, IT'S NOT AN OPAQUE FENCE.
YOU, YOU MENTIONED WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY IS IF THIS WAS, UH, A CHEAPER OR A WOODEN FENCE OR, UH, THAT'D BE DIFFERENT, BUT THIS IS, IT LOOKS, IT'S SOMEWHAT MATCHING THE NEIGHBOR.
IT'S, IT'S HIGH QUALITY AND IT'S NOT, I THINK AN EYESORE AS PEOPLE DRIVE DOWN THE ROAD.
AND THEN I THINK IT ALSO ADDRESSES THE SAFETY ISSUE THAT, THAT THAT'S THERE.
I I JUST GOT ONE, ONE COMMENT.
UH, I DON'T THINK IT AFFECTS THE, THE PUBLIC GOOD.
I THINK IT'S, IT'S, UH, A BENEFIT, A BENEFIT TO THE GOOD, UM, PROTECTING THE SAFETY OF, OF CITIZENS THAT TRAVELING DOWN THAT ROAD.
UH, I'VE BEEN IN SITUATIONS WHERE I HAD TO AVOID ANIMALS.
[01:50:01]
IT'S A POSITIVE EFFECT ON THE PUBLIC.SO JUST TO MAKE SURE, SINCE THIS IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN TYPICAL, A VOTE OF YES.
IS IN FAVOR OF OVERTURNING THE STAFF'S DECISION AND ALLOWING A EIGHT FOOT FENCE.
IS THAT CORRECT? THAT'S CORRECT.
IS THERE ANYTHING FROM A LONG-TERM STANDPOINT AS APPROVING SOMETHING LIKE, I WOULDN'T THINK THERE WOULD BE, BUT I'M JUST, THERE WOULD BE EACH, AS THE CHAIR SAID BEFORE EACH, EACH, EACH CASE IS CONSIDERED ON ITS OWN MERIT.
UM, BUT WE ARE LISTENING AND THIS, THIS IS AN UNUSUAL CASE AND THIS, THIS WILL GO ON THE LIST OF THINGS WE NEED TO ADDRESS.
WE, WELL ALL LET'S HAVE A VOTE.
I THINK WE'RE ALL IN A GOOD SPOT.
[7 Announcements]
ANNOUNCEMENTS.WE DO HAVE ONE ITEM ALREADY FOR THE OCTOBER 16TH MEETING, SO WE WILL HAVE ONE OF THE DEADLINE IS NEXT WEEK, SO WE MIGHT HAVE MORE.
UM, RIGHT NOW NO MEETINGS OR NO ITEMS FOR THE NOVEMBER 20TH MEETING OUTTA THE COUNTRY.
UH, THAT IS FALL BREAK THE 16TH.
UM, STATE REQUIRED TRAINING, UH, WE DID SEND OUT AN EMAIL ON AUGUST 21ST.
IT'S GOT SOME INFORMATION IN THERE ABOUT DIFFERENT OPPORTUNITIES AND WE'LL HAVE TWO MORE WEBINARS THAT WE'LL RELEASE BETWEEN NOW AND DECEMBER 1ST.
SO AT LEAST, AT LEAST AROUND NOVEMBER, DECEMBER, WE'LL RELEASE ONE FINAL EMAIL WITH ALL THE OPTIONS SO YOU CAN MEET YOUR FOUR HOURS OF REQUIRED TRAINING.
WE HAVE A LIST OF WHERE WE ARE 'CAUSE I THINK I'M OVER FOUR, BUT I DON'T KNOW.
WE DO, BUT I DON'T KNOW WHERE, WHERE IT IS.
I DON'T KNOW WHERE YOU ARE WITH IT, BUT I'LL, I'LL FOLLOW UP AND, AND LET Y'ALL KNOW.
AND IF, IF THE REST OF Y'ALL NEED TO KNOW, I CAN LET YOU KNOW TOO.
I APPRECIATE THE LINKS FOR THE ONLINE TRAINING.
UM, IT SOUNDS LIKE WE'VE ALREADY GOT TWO PEOPLE THAT AREN'T GONNA BE HERE IN OCTOBER.
I'M ON THE FENCE AT THIS MOMENT, SO, UM, MAYBE IF WE CAN GO AHEAD AND REACH OUT, SORRY, DRAWING A BLANK, UH, TO SEE IF HE'S GONNA BE HERE OR NOT.
UH, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WE CAN FIND OUT SOONER THAN LATER IF WE'RE GONNA HAVE A QUORUM FOR OCTOBER.
UH, JAMES, UH, I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT WHEN, WHEN I'M TALKING ABOUT THESE CASES ARE APPEALABLE MM-HMM
THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT WHEN I TALK ABOUT PRESIDENTS.
THEY CAN PRESENT THIS CASE AS AN EXAMPLE OF WHAT OUR DECISIONS WERE IN A SIMILAR CASE.
I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT JUST THE SUPPORT MM-HMM
FROM WHAT I READ IN OUR TRAINING AND WHAT I READ IN OUR MANUAL.
SO JUST TO BE CLEAR OF WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT
TO TESTIFY AND THESE CASES ARE PRESENTED AS ONE AS SUPPOSED TO THE OTHER ONE, WELL THEN I THINK YOU JUST, IT'S IT'S UP TO US TO SHOW WHY WE VOTED ONE WAY ON ONE AND ONE ON ANOTHER.
AND THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING IS IT'S EASY.
WITHOUT LAYING DOWN THE, THE THREADS OR THE T THREADS HERE IN THIS MEETING.
WE, WE GOTTA SPEAK, UH, OPENLY AND CLEARLY ABOUT WHAT, WHAT WE ARE MAKING OUR DECISIONS ON.
THAT'S ALL I'M SAYING AND I AGREE WITH YOU ON THAT.
DO YOU NEED THESE TWO CARDS FOR THE RECORD?